Ok, Ground drivers, Let us talk...

[Dkamanus]

This is a message I made on the forums of SOE, trying to give some pointers for infantry towards tank drivers.

Hi there.

I'm doing this post as a Vanguard Driver and as a Combat medic. I saw the need to do something like this 'cause, as a tank driver, I've seem some STUPID things that I would never do (anymore at least) as an infantry. First, people need to understand. Tank drivers need space. A LOT of Space to move. Why? The way tanks are currently makes the need to move a must. We can't stand on the same spot for too much time, even more with shells being lobbed at us.

Why must I do such a thread? Me, as a combat medic, MUST mind my surroundings a lot. A dead medic is a useless medic, and therefore, I must keep on my toes. That is specially truth when I see tanks rolling in. The driver is already tasked with driving (Moving to position, avoiding getting hit by other tanks and infantry), shooting (involving the focus to calculate the shoots and all) and surivivng (which can be tough, considering the Air).

The LAST place someone will want to use as cover is the side, front or behind of a tank. Once engaged in combat, infantry simply ceases to exist and I'm commited in destroying the other tank, which could cause lots of troubles for the infantry. Today I had a big problem with that. Since I'm spending quite more time (and Certs) on my vanguard MBT, I'm using it way much more. And I saw players actually using me as cover, or either ignoring me completely.

When in combat, It's impossible for me to focus on all those things, and still the little dots that are my infantry allies. I might run people over, but most that I do think I should be paying attention more on them then on the enemy armor (ground AND air). I do consider myself a quite competent tank driver, and I use a Vanguard with the AP Turret, top armor, and AA Gun, which make me useless against infantry.

Which takes me to the pointers:

- Don't try to use a tank as cover.
The driver's vision is limited to its turret, which only faces in a 130º arc, 65º to the left of the gun, 65º to the right of the gun. We can't see people on our cone of vision unless they are in front of us, and in combat, we WON'T pay a huge attention to the radar, unless to know where our fellow tank drivers are. We can't be keeping track of infantry at all.

- Man a tank's turret, even for a while
You will help you either your tank driver by being extra damage (or covering an entire section, like the Air) and your fellow infantry/air fighters, and you'll be protected from infantry fire. In my case, I know the tanks worst enemy is air fighters, so I get an AA gun on the tank, which will help somewhat negate the air advantage, or, at least, make the fighter think twice before engaging me head-on. The AA gun on the Vanguard is VERY STRONG if you can keep hitting the target, and it is the bane of Liberators and galaxies.

- STAY CLEAR of a tank's possible path
This one is important. When you see a tank, give him passage. Tanks take more time from stopping and resuming movement then infantry, and they can't stop instantly to avoid hitting an infantry. Tanks take huge time to traverse mountains, and they'll mostly take roads. Use the sides of the roads for moving, not the center of it.

- Let your tank driver know you're empty on the gunner seat
Tanks, as of now, don't hold enough ammo, if the driver is good enough to survive (A record of mine was 40+/- without losing it). It will run out of ammo. Let the driver know you're empty, and he'll try to grab ammo somewhere (because a gunner seat manned is VERY IMPORTANT).

- DON'T REPAIR if you (don't know what to do/aren't asked to)
This is also a major pointer, and one that actually makes tanks get weapon locked quite easily. Do tank drivers like repairs? YES, WE DO! What we don't like is an enginner trying to repair us while we're in moving combat. Why? The hitbox of the tank will run over people, even if YOU seem to be a foot away from the tank. That happens a lot.

Normally a driver will be an Enginner himself and will know when to pull out and repair. IF the driver is shooting stationary, you may repair if you want, but MIND THE TREADS POSITION. It is to where the driver will move forward or retreat, and he wants you to stay clear. Don't try repairing a moving tank, you have a BIG chance of being run over.

These are some pointers I think infantry should be aware. We tank drivers want to help infantry with heavy ordenance, or AV support, but we will (as I did for the First time today since I got into Beta) get weapon locked with infantry throwing themselves against a tank because they are clueless of their surroundings.

Thank you.

What are your opinions on the matter? Should the tank driver be MORE responsible, or is it actually an infantrys fault? Its a sort of discussion (and problem) most drivers want to happen. Not saying change the game mechanics (unless they are bugs), but trying to create a conscience, some sort of mentality for the game.

[FastAndFree]

Tanks should make reasonable attempts at avoiding infantry when possible, but if people use you as a shield when you need to move... They knew the risks (or just learned a valuable lesson about the Law of Superior Tonnage)

[Crator]

Good points. I'm most interested in a solution to engineers who wish to repair. I don't typically go near any ground vehicle due to these issues. But it would be nice if there was a way to allow them to get close without risking death. I've also been run over by simply attempting to mount the vehicle to gun.

What if they gave the players a hover board? You could lasso on to a vehicle and pull yourself into it, move with it while you're repairing it or jump in the gunner seat without risking death.

[Baneblade]

I routinely mow infantry, even if I see them. It isn't about griefing or getting hate tells. It's about moving the biggest piece on the battlefield into position without getting killed due to jaywalkers.

[Absentis]

I'd say both parties are responsible. Tank drivers need to be aware of friendlies and infantry need to be aware of tanks. Although, enemy infantry are a completely different story, they's much easier to just run over than to shoot at in open ground.

What should be done for infantry and vehicles is make it so slow moving vehicles will just nudge friendlies instead of running them over, this would make the engineers' jobs a much easier, and more viable.

[Pvt Badger]

Originally Posted by Dkamanus

This is a message I made on the forums of SOE, trying to give some pointers for infantry towards tank drivers.



What are your opinions on the matter? Should the tank driver be MORE responsible, or is it actually an infantrys fault? Its a sort of discussion (and problem) most drivers want to happen. Not saying change the game mechanics (unless they are bugs), but trying to create a conscience, some sort of mentality for the game.

Generally, from what I've seen it's the infantry's fault. A tank has to get somewhere so I'm likely to not stop my Lightning. If I'm defending or patrolling an area then I'll stop, take a look around, let the speedbu- errr... Infantry go by and be on my way.

One issue that seems to plague vehicles in games is infantry. Somehow tanks are hard to spot despite their size. So the tanker will put the gas on and *BAM BAM BAM*! Three allies are mowed down because the tank moved

[Crator]

Originally Posted by Pvt Badger

One issue that seems to plague vehicles in games is infantry. Somehow tanks are hard to spot despite their size. So the tanker will put the gas on and *BAM BAM BAM*! Three allies are mowed down because the tank moved

Especially true in PS2 at nighttime. So hard to distinguish.

[Johari]

As a MagMower driver I find I get the majority of my TK's right as the Mag is coming off of the spawn pad and I have no control over the vehicle but the killbox is still there. But Dkamanus hit it on the head when he said once you enter into combat with another vehicle or a group of troops you are focused on hitting them and avoiding their return fire. I KNOW I've killed several friendlies by running them over as I try to maneuver.

[Rivenshield]

LOL. OP sounds like a typical smurf, and I heartily wish he continues with his King Of The Road attitude, refuses to coordinate with his smurfy footsloggers, runs over people who are trying to fix him, declines to provide cover for people more fragile than he, and blames *them* when he runs over people slower than he is.

We teamwork-oriented Terrans will continue to decimate you. Carry on.

[Figment]

I've hit more infantry in the few weeks of PS2 than in my entire PS1 carreer. This annoys me greatly. Why?

For one, the third person view is rather poor. It doesn't show the path ahead very well because the angle is very low, at times so low you're looking up with respect to the tank (!), hence often the tank chassis simply obscures the path and anything on it. Third person in PS1 helped to spot road obstacles (including mines), in PS2 it does not. Of course there are no mine fields because nobody can be bothered to place one mine in the hopes of all the spots on the map someone would drive over it.

Secondly, the driver is preoccupied with shooting and aiming, or simply driving in first person. They won't be looking at the road with the attention that they should. They'll often halt, giving people time to catch up, overtake them and by that time the driver is done firing or looking around to the other side and moves off again without checking the map or road, expecting it to be empty, or expecting to miss whoever walks next to them (hitbox). And even if they do see that blue triangle... there's 50+ on their map every second, it's not like they'll think yours is special till after they kill you...

Situational awareness of the PS2 driver is therefore fastly lower than in PS1. But hey, it's not like there were warnings ahead of time there'd be more people being ran over, right? Right? Right! :P


Thirdly, the aforementioned hitbox. I've even ran over a person with an ATV and instantly killed him, because the hitbox was much wider than expected. I missed the person in question by a good feet, but I suppose the windpressure got him. (btw, for those unaware, you can shoot people off of ATVs, therefore ATVs generally survive while the driver dies on the first or second volley of fire).

Fourth, the current ground vehicle controls are rather flimsy and it's hard to steer them and sometimes you get into an uncontrollable slide down a hill that was just too steep for you to climb. Unfortunately, since the angle of third person is pretty bad, and in first person you can't tell what the actual gradient rather than the relative gradient of the hill is, this happens a lot. Sliding down hills or trying to move up hills you can't get on also happens a lot more with infantry than in PS1, since in PS1 you could easily tell just what your character stance was with respect to the hill. In PS2 you just have to base this on lightfall and ground distance to your face.

But hey, who needs spatial orientation.

[Dkamanus]

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

LOL. OP sounds like a typical smurf, and I heartily wish he continues with his King Of The Road attitude, refuses to coordinate with his smurfy footsloggers, runs over people who are trying to fix him, declines to provide cover for people more fragile than he, and blames *them* when he runs over people slower than he is.

We teamwork-oriented Terrans will continue to decimate you. Carry on.

I would be offended, if it wasn't for the fact that I lost count of how many rednecks I killed with so few vanguards lost. Infantry, tanks, maxes, even zooming mosquitos that are pretty easy to one shot.

Our tank columns annihilate any thing tr throws at us, and I feel like we are even breaking a sweat.

=P

[Sunrock]

IMO they should easy down on the tank friendly fire... Especially the swing of the cannon. If you swing the cannon barrel around and hit a foot soldier he dies...