Crewed MBT's for one week

Koxigori · 2012-10-29, 09:35 AM

So since we are still in beta, why not take advantage of that and test this while we still can? I suggest changing the MBT's to having a dedicated driver for one week (or less?).

There has been a lot of depate over crewed MBT's, but most of the arguments are speculative or based on experiences from PS1. So why not actually test this? We are still in beta and isn't that what beta is for? And this is not meant to be for or against crewed MBT's, but both sides could benefit from actually testing this. Instead of just discussing how it might affect gameplay, poeple on both sides could make more meaningful arguments derived from real testing.

Though, it may be that with the launch date closing (too) fast, all time should be concentrated into making a release-ready product.

I'm sorry if this particular idea has been discussed already. It's just that there are ten topics on crewed MBT's with ten pages each, so I didn't go thrue them all. If so, please lock.

RodenyC · 2012-10-29, 09:58 AM

Gatekeeper · 2012-10-29, 10:07 AM

That sounds like a good idea in theory, but in practice it wouldn't be that easy a change to put in place - so it's very unlikely to happen with release only a few weeks away and lots of bugs and features still needing to be sorted before then.

The big problem is the Magrider - it doesn't have a turret for the main gun in PS2, so you can't give control of it to the gunner - because it will still be the driver who has to aim it by turning the tank. That means that in order to implement this change the devs would actually have to produce a new model for the Mag, which would be a fairly significant change.

The devs have said they might put in some kind of cert to allow MBTs where the gunner controls the main gun, but I wouldn't expect to see it anytime soon.

Qwan · 2012-10-29, 10:08 AM

I have to diagree with smedley on this one, driving while gunning sucks ass. And dont get me started with the vs tank OMG I rarely very rarely waste resources on this tank, If they are going to keep the tanks this way then get rid of the lightning makes no sence.

Hamma · 2012-10-29, 10:29 AM

I also disagree with Smed on this one.

And it would be cool if they could add it on the fly but they simply don't have the code support to do so. I've asked Kevm0 about it a couple times.

Littleman · 2012-10-29, 10:57 AM

"Majority of fans have fun driving than gunning."

I'm gonna call bull$#!%, as we wouldn't have dime a dozen MBT's rolling solo and even locking their tank from outsiders using the secondary if that were the case. It's fun to drive and gun, and it shows in game. It shows in just about every other game with tanks in it. It's the norm.

The problem is, the lightning is only good for it's Skyguard component, and that is about the only real reason MBT's should go for multi-crew requirements - a little inconvenience to limit the tank population. Though honestly, I'd prefer if the lightning out shined in more effective ways than just as a single man capable (AA) platform.

And just to set the record straight, there's no reason why they can't put a turret where the secondary is without modifying the base Mag Rider design. It's just an object told to pivot on a set X,Y,Z point of the craft.

Sturmhardt · 2012-10-29, 11:00 AM

Good idea, but it's not gonna happen I guess, Smed is too ignorant to try something like that.

PoisonTaco · 2012-10-29, 11:04 AM

I think once they make it so you need a tech plant to spawn MBT's that will limit their production. That and lightnings will be used more.

Tamas · 2012-10-29, 11:38 AM

If Nov 20 is release date, then spending time on something like this is a waste of time - there are FAR more important issues to sort out and time is very limited. Of course if they pushed back release date, then this is something to be tested out.

Personally - I hate only driver/only gunner. The way it is now is great and fun. You can always add a normal gun for the gunner and have him do amazing things.

Lets see what happens - you make driver and gunner only. People will lock vehicles and simply switch seats - yeah that will improve things, certainly better support for my infantry ass, when a Magrider sits stationary and takes shots, while getting hammered. Or when 2 pugs don't coordinate 1 moves as he wills and the other cant hit anything.

Don't delude yourselves that this will somehow improve teamwork on any noticeable scale. If you are in an outift, teamwork is "ON" by default. IF you think that restrictive features will change today's average player, you might be too far from reality.

There is a segment that PS2 wants to attract, because if only PS1 vets play the game, it will fail. To attract new players, you need to appeal to what they want. There is no freaking way players who wish to play the game for 1-2 hours will want some random idiot driving the tank off the cliff while they can't hit anything.

They mentioned Certing as an option. So I agree with this part - players who wish strict roles can have driver+gunner. Players who wish to drive the tank with a dam gun get their cake as well. Unless of course there the types that "my way is the correct way, screw everyone else".

Figment · 2012-10-29, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

That sounds like a good idea in theory, but in practice it wouldn't be that easy a change to put in place

Dev work:

Find: code for tank controls input:

Dev finds the following variables:

Hull controls:
Forward: W, source: player A
Backward: S, source: player A
Left: A, source: player A
Right: D, source: player A

Main turret controls:
Rotate left: mouse left, source: player A
Rotate right: mouse right, source: player A
Angle gun up: mouse up, source: player A
Angle gun down: mouse down, source: player A
Fire gun: left mouse click, source: player A

Mini-gun controls
Rotate left: mouse left, source: player B
Rotate right: mouse right, source: player B
Angle gun up: mouse up, source: player B
Angle gun down: mouse down, source: player B
Fire gun: left mouse click, source: player B
Alternate fire: right mouse click (hold to lock if option), source: player B

So what needs to change?

Input turret controls: player A needs to become player C. Use same code as for the turret to look around for the driver, but delete the bits that link it to the angles of the turret itself.

DONE! D:

That's really, really hard to accomplish I'm sure. Luckily it's not been done yet on every vehicle in PlanetSide 1 that has a gunner so they can't even copy parts of already made and completely bug tested code for this.

Oh, wait.

Look people, we don't even need new animations for it, it's just a matter of input code! The only additional things are a small HUD change by adding a gunner spot there, again: mostly copy-pasta, a minor graphical UI change and a minor change in the vehicle locking window. I don't get what the big deal is with not at the very least trying it. :/

PredatorFour · 2012-10-29, 11:52 AM

Great idea, strongly disagree with Smed on this issue. Tbh they shouldve thought about testing this idea months ago when we had all those topics active everyday.

Koxigori · 2012-10-29, 12:36 PM

Thanks Gatekeeper and Hamma for pointing that out. Magrider issue didn't occur to me.

I just feel this mechanic (for either way) is a really big and defining aspect of PS2, so it's a shame if this is decided without actual testing. Maybe we can hope for a post-launch test server? Although, how it is in release, probably is how it's going to be forever after.

As for this topic, if it ends up another MBT crew debate/rampage, feel free to lock it up. There are enough threads for that already.

Hmr85 · 2012-10-29, 12:48 PM

I have to disagree with Smed on this also. I really really want to see the PS1 style of tanking make a return with a dedicated driver/gunner. I personally cannot stand the setup we have at the moment. I miss my dedicated gunner Jamman from PS1. We made a hell of a team when it came to knocking out enemy tanks.

Figment · 2012-10-29, 01:15 PM

With regards to the Magrider, what I don't get is the need for people to either retain the front mounted heavy gun, rather than either removing it, weakening it or placing it on a turret of its own.

OR, simply create a new tank and move the Magrider from MBTs to a tank destroyer class.

Fear The Amish · 2012-10-29, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

Dev work:

Find: code for tank controls input:

Dev finds the following variables:

Hull controls:
Forward: W, source: player A
Backward: S, source: player A
Left: A, source: player A
Right: D, source: player A

Main turret controls:
Rotate left: mouse left, source: player A
Rotate right: mouse right, source: player A
Angle gun up: mouse up, source: player A
Angle gun down: mouse down, source: player A
Fire gun: left mouse click, source: player A

Mini-gun controls
Rotate left: mouse left, source: player B
Rotate right: mouse right, source: player B
Angle gun up: mouse up, source: player B
Angle gun down: mouse down, source: player B
Fire gun: left mouse click, source: player B
Alternate fire: right mouse click (hold to lock if option), source: player B

So what needs to change?

Input turret controls: player A needs to become player C. Use same code as for the turret to look around for the driver, but delete the bits that link it to the angles of the turret itself.

DONE! D:

That's really, really hard to accomplish I'm sure. Luckily it's not been done yet on every vehicle in PlanetSide 1 that has a gunner so they can't even copy parts of already made and completely bug tested code for this.

Oh, wait.

Look people, we don't even need new animations for it, it's just a matter of input code! The only additional things are a small HUD change by adding a gunner spot there, again: mostly copy-pasta, a minor graphical UI change and a minor change in the vehicle locking window. I don't get what the big deal is with not at the very least trying it. :/

Oh great you have figured out how to make 2 out of the 3 MBT's crewed for 2 now tell me how you get the mag to do that.... ill be waiting for your response with baited breath.