Poor Base Design

Beerbeer · 2012-11-03, 03:29 PM

One thing I'm missing about ps1 vs ps2 is the infantry only fights in bases and towers.

The bases were smaller, didn't have so many outdoor elements that one had to access or spawn from that required someone to run a vehicle gauntlet to the primary base or allow opposing infantry the ability to quickly spawn camp.

An attacking force had to defend the objective until the bitter end, here, on some bases, take out an outside spawn or just camp it with vehicles and it's easy to take over a base. Even the objective takeover point in many bases is so poorly placed, I ask myself, what were they thinking?

Tower design is extremely poor in my opinion. They wanted extravagance without putting much thought into the mechanics of how people would defend and attack. Too much fluff, no thoughtful substance.

Interior bases are too wide open as well. Gone are the corridors that at least made base defense feasible, even by a smaller force. Now bases seem more like a liability in regards to defense if you're outnumbered.

Anyways, if I were to grade their base design, I would give them an A in fluff, D in gameplay.

bullet · 2012-11-03, 03:56 PM

With how powerful every weapon is and the instagibbing grenades, I don't think PS1 style bases would be a feasible option. If they expanded the corridors to maybe the size of basement rooms in PS1 and then made even larger interiors like the inside of a PS2 tech plant, I could see that working. The PS1 hallways in PS2 would just be meat grinders, hell, they were already meat grinders in PS1 even with the higher TTK there.

Beerbeer · 2012-11-03, 04:02 PM

But it made attackers actually defend until the base flipped. Here, take out a few things that are not easily defended or way out in timbuktu, park a vehicle outside the spawn points or around towers and it's easy to swarm a base.

The old bases, people fought until the base flipped because they had to with the protected and sheltered spawn point and location of the objective. Here not so much and a lot of that has to do with the poor base design.

Beerbeer · 2012-11-03, 04:06 PM

Also, the bases allowed a smaller force to at least stall if not hold out for a while until reinforcements arrived, which is something bases should do and afford. Here, forget about it; they're more of a liability.

bullet · 2012-11-03, 04:18 PM

No, I completely agree about the generators and cap points. Those key parts of the facility need to be in places that are in well defended areas. I think the only base fights I've had that somewhat reminded me of PS1 style base fights are at Tech Plants where the defenders have parked a sundy in the Plant.

Normally no one ever defends the spawn gen at a Tech Plant because its too hard to. Its just placed in a spot thats so hard to defend because vehicles can prevent defenders from getting in there. So the alternative is to just use Sundies which make defending the Plant 1000 times easier. You spawn in the base right under the Cap point and are always within range to respond to the shield gen.

Biolabs are nearly impossible to break defense on too because the defenders basically spawn on both the Shield gen and the Spawn gen. You just have to completely out number them to win a biolab.

Beerbeer · 2012-11-03, 04:24 PM

The bases are just too big as well making them hard to defend. Again, too much extravagance, not much utility.

The biolab is a good example of what would happen if tanks can't park around the base and spam. It's defendable by smaller numbers. The towers are so wide open that once you lose the outside, it is over.

Sir fraggington · 2012-11-03, 04:32 PM

I fully agree to you,sir.

i also find that in bases with only one control point, there should be battlements that have a clear view over that control point and can only be accessed via the spawn room. so even if you would get in a spawn camp situation,it would be easy to take care of.

Crator · 2012-11-03, 04:51 PM

You guys see the latest patch notes? Sounds like step in right direction, right?

World:

-Numerous Capture area sizes on Indar have been increased and additional cover has been provided.

RSphil · 2012-11-03, 10:28 PM

amerish has troop only bases. read notes and go give it a go. great continent

Marinealver · 2012-11-07, 02:38 PM

Already known. Been brought up months ago.

Beerbeer · 2012-11-07, 02:45 PM

Yeah there was not one element in ps1 in regards to vehicles being able to effectively camp a takeover point. Or camp between an objective and spawn location.

If you were attacking, you had to get out of your vehicles to take over that objective. In no way were vehicles allowed to interfere with the ability to attack or defend that objective, they just served the ability to get to that objective and control the territory around that objective.

The spawn location in reference to a takeover point allowed a last ditch effort at defense without the worry of vehicles breathing down your neck. If you wanted to spawn camp in ps1, you had to do it with infantry, the hard way, not like this. Even the towers here are so open that vehicles can spam the interior levels easily.

Base takeover and defense just feels less satisfying in this game because it's no where near as difficult to take something over provided you have more vehicles. You earned a defended base in ps1, way more satisfying IMO.

Sturmhardt · 2012-11-07, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Beerbeer

The bases are just too big as well making them hard to defend. Again, too much extravagance, not much utility.

Exactly. They are so big, noone can defend bases like that. They sould size them down a lot.

Timealude · 2012-11-07, 03:42 PM

The main problem is the only effect way in PS1 to get into a base was to MAX crash and with the way the engie tools work now all you would need to do is MAX crash again and toss grenades (which can 1hk now.) So Bring back those cordors would be very bad just for the simple fact the gameplay is way different and doesnt fit the old style of gameplay that PS1 was.

Crator · 2012-11-07, 03:58 PM

The issue with indoor areas in PS1 was due to choke points. Not that they were indoors away from vehicles. Note we do have a proper indoor base in PS2, it's called a Bio Lab. I do agree choke points are not going to work well in PS2, so they shouldn't use them. If they do there should be some sort of control mechanism that allow a smaller amount of people to access it, keeping the majority of the pop away from the area.

I feel a lot of these issues can be resolved by moving spawn points, SCUs, and capture points in the appropriate locations, even at those places that have open areas to the outside. But I also agree there should be more variance in the indoor type bases vs the outdoor type bases.