Thoughts about NC gear and server sucess

Phrygen · 2012-11-22, 08:32 PM

I'm new to the game, however from what I can tell, the NC pretty much have the best faction gear, and yet on Waterson and Matheson they seem to be getting owned most of the time.

Snipers:
They start with bolt action, their secondary alpha weapon is an even better bolt action. High damage pistol is awesome etc. Perhaps TR weapons are auto pistol is better but thats personal preference i think.

Reaver:
Well i can't speak to much about this from personal experience, but i have been speaking with two very very good pilots who both claim that the reaver is simply better than the other two Faction specific jets. Apparently the reaver is the fastest when using afterburners properly, can fly backwards the fastest, has the best weaponry, and has the best thrust vectoring.

im sure this is going to spark debate. This is information taken from several trusted sources. In particular thepurplebaron's twitch stream was very informative as he plays all three factions through alpha to now.

MBT:
The magrider hovers and the prowler can deploy and have double shot and can be great against infantry. The vanguard however is pretty damn powerful. I'd say this one is somewhat dependent on playstyle, but if you account for a outfits ability to also use lightnings ability to fill the role of anti infantry or anti-air, the vanguard certainly is very good.

Infantry weapons:
Also, up for debate. I also saw a reddit post about how NC weapons are the worst when you do some form of testing pure DPS. However we know NC weapons do the most damage. Certs however, improve stability and recoil, but can't improve damage. I think this is a bit of a preference thing as well, but in theory the weakest parts of the NC weaponry can be improved with certs, where as the weakness of NC bullets can not.

My eastcoast server experience:
All this being said, my experience so far is that the NC gets owned pretty badly in the first few days. I also haven't found any large outfits like the enclave or OoX ( i think thats the right name for the vanu on waterson). Waterson does have some very good NC like DVX delrith but from what i understand his outfit hasn't recruited that much.

Just wondering how you guys feel about this. I suppose i'm considering it because i prefer NC so far, however i have not found any large and organized outfits yet, or really been sparked by any on the recruit forums (no offense NC

).

Beerbeer · 2012-11-22, 08:38 PM

NC weapons are the worst IMO, at least that was my impression during beta after playing all three factions.

The thing about them is that yes, they have higher damage per bullet, but they also have TWO drawbacks to compensate: slow ROF and heavy barrel movement/large COF/poor control.

Should just have one of those drawbacks IMO as no other faction has two negatives for any one positive.

Vanguard is better than the prowler IMO, but sucks compared to the mag.

MCG > Lasher >>> JH

Phrygen · 2012-11-22, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Beerbeer

NC weapons are the worst IMO, at least that was my impression during beta after playing all three factions.

The thing about them is that yes, they have higher damage per bullet, but they also have TWO drawbacks to compensate: slow ROF and heavy barrel movement/large COF/poor control.

Should just have one of those drawbacks IMO as no other faction has two negatives for any one positive.

Vanguard is better than the prowler IMO, but sucks compared to the mag.

MCG > Lasher >>> JH

Granted they have the large cof/poor control and barrel movement at first, but certs can adress that to an extent. However i will say that as far as infantry goes its more even.

I dont think the mag is really just "better" especially due to the mag having a fixed turret.

Zulthus · 2012-11-22, 09:24 PM

And so the fabled Heavy Assault debate begins..

Lasher > MCG > Jackhammer

Beerbeer · 2012-11-22, 09:28 PM

I blitzed through all three empires late in beta, with a heavy infantry emphasis and that was the impression that I got. Of course, it's just my opinion as I don't have any scientific data to back me up.

Granted, I'm sure there are many people better than myself who can probably do just fine with the NC. I guess I just did better with the TR and VS on the infantry front because they're just more forgiving and easier to kill with. The NC weapons felt streaky to me; feast or famine.

Can't really comment on anything else, as I just mainly tried infantry and tank stuff.

TR have the best infantry weapons.

james · 2012-11-22, 11:49 PM

The problem with the NC right now, is the NC has turned into the pubby faction.

But i do feel the NC weapons need a slight buff, it feels i loose to many gun fights i shouldn't, but then there seems to be some major hit reg/lag issues, so actual ttk may be screwed. It feels like some time my bullets just don't kill, when others they drop people. I think its more of a lag issue than anything. So perhaps net code needs more work, than balance

Beerbeer · 2012-11-23, 12:03 AM

When I went against the NC, I don't know how many times some poor sap was 20 meters away and missed almost every shot at me. It didn't matter if they were hip firing or aiming down the sights, maybe one bullet would hit me or often times nothing hits me at all. I saw this a lot and I'm sure other people can recall the same thing while fighting against the NC under similar circumstances.

I didn't see much of this from the VS or TR, even the poor players would hit me with something while doing the same thing at the same range and I think I experienced enough of these encounters to minimize any high/low skill player discrepancies across the board.

The drawbacks just make NC guns streaky. They will either miss you completely or wtf pwn you if they "get lucky," there's really not much of an in between.

Chewy · 2012-11-23, 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by Beerbeer

When I went against the NC, I don't know how many times some poor sap was 20 meters away and missed almost every shot at me. It didn't matter if they were hip firing or aiming down the sights, maybe one bullet would hit me or often times nothing hits me at all. I saw this a lot and I'm sure other people can recall the same thing while fighting against the NC under similar circumstances.

I didn't see much of this from the VS or TR, even the poor players would hit me with something while doing the same thing at the same range and I think I experienced enough of these encounters to minimize any high/low skill player discrepancies across the board.

The drawbacks just make NC guns streaky. They will either miss you completely or wtf pwn you if they "get lucky," there's really not much of an in between.

More or less this.

Without certing into a weapon it fires all over the place. I can fight the recoil and stay on target most of the time but with a wide cone of fire it's best to not engage at range unless you know your weapon. Take the MAX weapons for example.

NC get a shotgun while the others get ARs of sorts. The starter NC MAX shotgun has more power than anything Iv seen, but no matter how good my aim is it will NOT hit the target if it's more than 5m out. Iv had far to many encounters where Id put an entire mag into someone at the other end of a room and they not die thanks to the spread being WTF huge.

Having a low ROF (rate of fire) and high COF (cone of fire) does not make up for the higher damage shots. Having a lower ROF should go hand in hand with a lower COF due to having more time in between shots to steady the gun.

psijaka · 2012-11-23, 08:34 AM

The default NC bolt action sniper is far superior to the other default snipers for meduim/long range work; getting that one headshot kill is all important.

I'll not comment on the fighter aircraft as I'm no pilot, but tanks - the Magrider is superior in many respects, with it's low profile, excellent terrain handling and sideways strafing capabilities. Far superior to the Vanguard, which is a great big slow moving shell magnet.

Mavvvy · 2012-11-23, 08:57 AM

The only issue I find with NC weapons is the fact that if someone gets the jump on you no matter your reaction you get dropped , however if you do the same to someone else the rof/accuracy can compensate enough to allow them to kill you.

Now obviously that's not a 100% certainty but its happened enough to my squad mates an I to take notice. However you gotta play to your factions strengths not weaknesses I suppose and that's out at medium range for the NC.

Figment · 2012-11-23, 08:59 AM

The reason the NC's Gauss in PS1 was long considered the best MA rifle was because it did most damage per bullet and on a shot per shot basis was highly accurate and could even do very short bursts. Cone of Fire control was very important to the Gauss, but if you could, nobody could touch you. In PS2 this is not really the case. In PS1 the NC pistol would be more like a shotgun. In PS2 it's more like the Repeater of PS1. A lot of NC weapons currently feel a bit like a MCG with very low rof in PS1: inaccurate as hell, but can work up to mid range if you're good.

The Cycler in PS1 could do longer bursts, but did less damage per shot. High rof compensated a bit, but the MCG in PS1 simply performed better than the Cycler at most short to medium ranges if you knew how to use it. Hence few people used the Cycler. In PS2, a burst of TR fire is enough to drop someone since you get a bunch of headshots in a row and man, those bursts are quick. Even the pistol is more like an accurate SMG than a pistol.

The Pulsar in PS1 could do a lot of things at once, but had the worst damage degredation (at first, changed very late into the game to be a much better weapon with less damage drop off). The Beamer is definitely stronger than in PS1. Makes it less cute though.

All in all, VS seem pretty decently balanced, although the sniper rifles are inescapable it seems even if you zig zag and move around a lot, you just can't seem to stop getting hit in a row...

What I find ridiculous though is the hipshot sniper spam (many shots in a row) at melee range basically acting as a high speed shotgun. Those clips should probably be halfed... IMO. Total ammo is fine, but when do we get an opportunity to aim and return fire? If you fight someone with bolt action, you get plenty of opportunity to make them miss and get a shot in during their reload. Not so against semi-auto.

Ghoest9 · 2012-11-23, 09:45 AM

1 NC have the worst weapons. They are are definitely not all bad but in general they are the hardest to use. And most of them arent any better than the other empires in the hands of a highly skilled player.

2 NC is the most popular faction with new players - especially on US servers because of the "lore."

FuzzyandBlue · 2012-11-23, 11:53 AM

Objectively speaking in any FPS the most important stats in a gun are its accuracy and its ROF Both of which are worse on NC infantry weapons.

As BeerBeer was saying the NC guns have two drawbacks to one marginal advantage, damage per bullet is not that much higher from what I have seen.

If anyone has any idea how many bullets it takes to kill that would be cool to see.

james · 2012-11-23, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by FuzzyandBlue

Objectively speaking in any FPS the most important stats in a gun are its accuracy and its ROF Both of which are worse on NC infantry weapons.

As BeerBeer was saying the NC guns have two drawbacks to one marginal advantage, damage per bullet is not that much higher from what I have seen.

If anyone has any idea how many bullets it takes to kill that would be cool to see.

The lmg's seems to be 4 hit kills up close when bullets actually land on your target, at range its to hard to tell so far do to spread. It does seem even up close the lmg's have a random cone of fire in close

Phrygen · 2012-11-23, 02:41 PM

Ok lets continue the discussion:

1- Will certs positively even out the infantry weapons. Example: how will a gripped NC carbine fair against the gripped TR carbine. Certs dont add damage but they can make a weapon more steady and easier to aim with sights. Is this an advantage for the NC?

2- Magrider vs. vanguard: while i think they are equal some here do not. The magrider might be faster and more maneuverable, however its fixed gun. The vanguard being able to move its turret is huge and allows it to take advantage of extra defenses on a particular side of its hull, or "strafe" by simply moving the turret to its side for example. Also, the vanguard has less drop from what i can tell, and hits harder.

Air: Reaver is pretty much understood as the best, especially once its certed out. This is really the best pilots opinions, and less my own as i just can't get really good with flying yet. It has to do with certed thrust vectoring and afterburner tricks that make it the fast, highly maneuverable, best hit box, best weapons etc. That said, flying is so hard in this game that it seems like on a server scale it would make little dent in daily control over the map.