NC weapons, is it just me?

IronDragon · 2012-12-10, 04:57 AM

I started playing PS2 as NC on the Connery server and while I never played PS1, I am experienced with FPS games and have been playing them since the 1990s. I didn't expect to murder everyone in sight, but nor did I expect the sort of strange situations to pop up that I've experienced so far.

I tend to roll as Engineer, Light Assault and Heavy Assault, so those weapons are what I've experienced the most as NC. In my first few days of playing, I did what I saw the enemy doing, which was to point my weapon at the target and fire off a magazine at them. Needless to say, I lost 90% of such fights. After looking around online for more information on NC, I read that NC's weapons hit for more damage, but the recoil sucks.

Well, that's alright I thought. You could say the same about the STG-44 in Day of Defeat or PKM in Battlefield 2. I know how to burst fire in FPS games, so I thought I'd be alright. I found myself as an Engineer defending a facility and found a good spot on one of the outer walls firing at infantry which were advancing on us. I tried firing medium length bursts at the enemy, 10 shots or so. Couldn't hit squat. I emptied all of my ammo like this and got zero kills. I dropped an ammo pack, refilled and tried again. Still, nada. No kills. I got sporatic hits on the enemy, who fired back on me with great effect.

I had to change positions because incoming fire was just too much to take. I refilled my ammo, found a new spot and resumed fighting. This time I tried short bursts. 3-5 rounds at a time. Still, I wasn't getting many hits. Often I found myself shooting at targets in the open as they charged forward, and my bullets did everything EXCEPT hit the enemy for the most part.

Finally, I put my weapon on single shot. I emptied two full magazines before I died, and never killed a soul. Just a few hits now and then.

This is just one example of my experience as an NC infantryman. With HA, LA and Engineer standard weapons, I just can't seem to hit anything.

Now, to compare:

I recently started playing on the Jager server as Terran Republic. Right off the bat I was killing people with ease compared to NC weapons. Compared to the NC weapons, my TR weapons feel almost godlike and I felt bad for the players I was killing.

At the same ranges and using the same aiming techniques, I'm hitting with TR weapons FAR more often and getting many more kills than I would with NC weapons. TR weapons even allow me to spray targets and take them down, versus the tedium of NC where I can catch an enemy trooper in the open, crouch down and begin firing bursts at them, only to have them spin around and take me out with hip fire before I can even get through their shields. I have very little of that as TR and at one point had a kill streak of 20 to my name.

So, is anyone else experiencing this? Yes, I can get kills with NC weapons, but it's head and shoulders more difficult than with TR weapons and is very frustrating.

ShadetheDruid · 2012-12-10, 05:21 AM

It's not just the recoil, we also have awful cone of fire compared to TR and VS, so we tend to lose out at mid range. The Gauss SAW is especially bad. Unless you want to practice and get really good with it, the best thing to do is throw it away and get something else (the cheapest option there is the GD-22S at only 100 certs, massive difference in accuracy and recoil, and it's much better at mid range than the other LMGs - you'll be halving your magazine size to get these benefits though).

The medic's Gauss Rifle isn't actually too bad for mid range, but all the other stock weapons (excluding the bolt driver) aren't exactly the best for anything other than close range (which is unfortunately where the TR weapons shine). The best option for getting more range is to pick up another weapon (although that's going to cost you certs/SC).

Other than the GD-22S for the HA, I tried out the new Razor carbine they added the other day and it seemed pretty good. It's much more accurate, controllable, and is apparently made more for mid range combat. Might be worth looking into if you play a lot of Engineer and LA, and you can always trial it for 30 mins to check it out.

Figment · 2012-12-10, 05:21 AM

That's something that's been pointed out by NC on a regular basis. VS tend to agree with the sentiment that NC are underperforming, TR tend to say we whine.

Then again, any complaints have been done away by some parts of the crowd as whine ever since release. Maintain Status Quo group has severely increased, a direct result of the game officially not being in beta anymore, even though it pretty much still is.

Getting changes through is going to be a lot harder now the beta status has been lifted though, new people coming in expect this to be a fully balanced and finished game already and they'll have a different mindset when it comes to rebalancing accross the board and fundamental system changes and testing new concepts.

IronDragon · 2012-12-10, 05:26 AM

Thanks for the replies. Do either of you know if there are any planned fixes on the way? The situation is really putting me off of the idea of continuing to play NC. I understand that the devs want each faction to feel unique in its strengths/weaknesses, but I feel like they've pushed NC's ability to be competetive too far in one direction.

There are times where I have the drop on an enemy, but I won't even bother shooting at them because I know my bullets will just fly off in every direction and I'll be killed by return fire.

Even when I encounter enemies at close range, it's still a struggle to come out on top. The first time I take a hit, it seems my accuracy just goes to crap and I become totally ineffective and will die.

Ghost Runner · 2012-12-10, 05:34 AM

Try shooting to the left of the aim reticule maybe? who knows but hey its worth a try.

Figment · 2012-12-10, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by IronDragon

Thanks for the replies. Do either of you know if there are any planned fixes on the way?

They've got so much to work on, not sure if it's a priority for them, probably depends on the statistics they use for reference. Did feel it was more balanced during beta. (even though IMO the TTKs

The situation is really putting me off of the idea of continuing to play NC. I understand that the devs want each faction to feel unique in its strengths/weaknesses, but I feel like they've pushed NC's ability to be competetive too far in one direction.

Personally feel a slightly better initial burst accuracy should suffice. Having need for more cone of fire control works as a balancing principle, but it's pretty darn tricky to balance just right.

Originally Posted by Ghost Runner

Try shooting to the left of the aim reticule maybe? who knows but hey its worth a try.

Worked for the MCG in PS1, particularly while strafing.

Juryrig · 2012-12-10, 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by IronDragon

The situation is really putting me off of the idea of continuing to play NC. I understand that the devs want each faction to feel unique in its strengths/weaknesses, but I feel like they've pushed NC's ability to be competetive too far in one direction.

I'm in pretty much the same situation. I've spent SC on my NC, so I'm reulctant to just bin it and start over, but I started up a Vanu alt on another server just for fun...and it IS fun, where the NC isn't.

The 'harder hit' of the NC weapons seems too little benefit compared to the downsides of reduced accuracy/increased recoil/increased COF/slower ROF.

I've spent ages as NC burst firing carefully from cover to whittle down enemies to kill them, and after an hour or so of that I swap onto my Vanu for some light relief - and in the same kind of engagements, just hold down the fire button and keep the full-auto fire landing on them till they are dead. Progress (in terms of BR, certs etc etc) seems to be around three times as fast.

I'm not whining - I'm a casual, average player, and I'm pretty much decided I'll just ignore the cash I spent on the NC character, wait for the next station cash sale and drop the same on my VS and stick with that.

But the experience does indicate to me that the three factions are not different flavours/styles with the same level of utility. As an average player, NC is significantly harder to play.

(I freely accept that for some players playing NC effectively, despite it seeming 'harder', may be very satisfying. But not for me. And I wonder if it's also the dev's intention)

FWIW - I would rather see the per-round damage of the NC weapons buffed, rather than having their accuracy increased or COF/recoil decreased.

Figment · 2012-12-10, 06:14 AM

The funniest thing though is that there are some forummers who will theorise that all crap/pub/bad/kiddie players went to play NC and all they need to do is l2p, which is supposedly some kind of global epidemic, since every server sees similar issues.

ShadetheDruid · 2012-12-10, 06:19 AM

I think at the very least they need to do something with the Gauss SAW. Even swapping it out with the Gauss SAW S as the starter NC HA weapon would be a massive improvement (and as a bonus, would leave the Gauss SAW intact and available as it is for those who like it).

Otherwise, i'd personally go for improving the cone of fire. I'm fine with high damage/low rate of fire/high recoil being our "thing", but if "duhhhh just burst fire" is going to be the general rule for NC then it needs to actually work.

james · 2012-12-10, 08:22 AM

As it sits it takes 200-300 certs to make most nc weapons any good. They are ok when they are certed up, but when stock they suck.
Higby has admitted the NC is under powered. So hopefully in the first large update there is a major balance patch to balance the factions, as of now, even in an outfit the NC is slowly getting old. While the outfits can hold their own, the zerg outsides of tank zergs is basically useless

SturmovikDrakon · 2012-12-10, 08:39 AM

So the problem is cone of fire?

I still want recoil to be their signature trait if something ever gets buffed, so don't touch that Higby

james · 2012-12-10, 08:46 AM

The biggest thing i don't understand is the nc take 1 less bullet to kill, but they decided we needed the slowest rpm, the highest recoil, and cof. One bullet is not that big of a deal

Ghoest9 · 2012-12-10, 09:56 AM

The problem is 3 fold.

1 COF and COF bloom from firing that is hard to use.

2 The slower fire rate and the need to use bursts allows enemies to put you in bloomlock but you cant put them in bloomlock.

2 Graphical bugs with NC projectile impacts often randomly dont give visual feedback which is subconciously useful to many players.

Mavvvy · 2012-12-10, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

The funniest thing though is that there are some forummers who will theorise that all crap/pub/bad/kiddie players went to play NC and all they need to do is l2p, which is supposedly some kind of global epidemic, since every server sees similar issues.

Yeah exactly, and some those are the same people who left NC during beta. Funny that indeed.

Fujilives · 2012-12-10, 11:04 AM

They are in a rough situation, because if they increase NC accuracy, what's the differentiating trait between the factions? Even a step up in accuracy would put them the same as TR's accuracy but with more firepower.