Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2

Hamma · 2012-12-20, 09:45 AM

I had a great discussion on Twitter last night about this and wanted to bring it here.

First off let me start this thread by saying this is NOT an attack on specific outfits. I will not allow people to argue about specific outfits, this discussion is about the size of outfits in general and whether or not you think they hurt the game. Also, I don't want to hear bs like "ohh you're doing it wrong" etc.

This has bothered me since late beta and is becoming more and more of an issue (imo) as of late. I don't have solution for it because there really isn't one but I want to see what peoples thoughts are.

My outfit is smaller in size compared to most. We typically run about a half a platoon or so. We are finding it difficult to find a solid role for us in the game that isn't boring and doesn't involve getting steamrolled. This is becoming more and more difficult as time goes on. Huge outfits are able to put 100 or more people or more on an objective and essentially win with numbers in almost all fights. We are able to hold off, but it's simply a matter of time until we are struck down due to sheer numbers.

Smaller outfits are finding that they have to disband and join larger outfits if they want to even have fun, causing them to lose their own identity and be absorbed into massive teams because there are no recruits left to take. For me community is more important to a game than the game itself, hence why I've been doing this all these years.

Is having one massive outfit per empire what the developers intended? Is spam inviting every no outfit person in the game really a viable recruiting effort? How many of these people even know what they are joining?

What is everyones thoughts on this issue?

Fab · 2012-12-20, 09:48 AM

I agree with that obviously, smaller structures have no chances with the current state of the game.

My Outfit can pull out 2 platoons during our operations, and we manage to do amasing stuff, but in a normal day to day fight, with less than a platoon, there is nothing you can do against a bigger force.
That's how the game works now.. I really don't see how to make it better. And I find it sad.

HiroshiChugi · 2012-12-20, 09:50 AM

Well i know that on my server, there is one outfit that EVERYONE knows about; *****. They constantly spam invites and have even tried to invite people from the outfit I'm in, if I'm not mistaken. I am in teh 2nd biggest outfit on the server (The First Cavalry Division) and people don't even say anything about us. It's always about *****. I fear that we may soon have no choice but to dissolve into *****, even though our leader will have no part of it. In my opinion, outfits SHOULD have size limits, and possibly have to pay money to increase the capacity of that outfit even.

Infernalis · 2012-12-20, 09:55 AM

Seeing as you can indefinitely respawn and the lack of real defenses then yes, the side with the bigger numbers will always prevail unless there's a big difference in skill.

Fab · 2012-12-20, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by HiroshiChugi

Well i know that on my server, there is one outfit that EVERYONE knows about; *****. They constantly spam invites and have even tried to invite people from the outfit I'm in, if I'm not mistaken. I am in teh 2nd biggest outfit on the server (The First Cavalry Division) and people don't even say anything about us. It's always about *****. I fear that we may soon have no choice but to dissolve into *****, even though our leader will have no part of it. In my opinion, outfits SHOULD have size limits, and possibly have to pay money to increase the capacity of that outfit even.

These guys sound like a zerg outfit, not even asking to be on TS or Mumble?
I mean if the goal of the outfit is to transform a blue zerg into a green zerg, there is really no point..

What is REALLY powerfull, is 200 guys actually working together, fighting for the same strategical goal, and THAT is really powerfull. A zerg is just a zerg. People join an Outfit for the tactical aspects I guess, not for the cool or [Whatever] tag.

HiroshiChugi · 2012-12-20, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Fab

These guys sound like a zerg outfit, not even asking to be on TS or Mumble?
I mean if the goal of the outfit is to transform a blue zerg into a green zerg, there is really no point..

What is REALLY powerfull, is 200 guys actually working together, fighting for the same strategical goal, and THAT is really powerfull. A zerg is just a zerg. People join an Outfit for the tactical aspects I guess, not for the cool or [Whatever] tag.

well the outfit I'm in looks down on ****, MAJORLY. Just because of the simple fact that they don't require Teamspeak, Radcall, or Mumble. They just zerg abd zerg and zerg all day long. And when they are trying to cap a base and it looks even in the SLIGHTEST bit like they won't win it, they leave to a DIFFERENT continent, not to a different OBJ or base, but a different CONTINENT. I wish they would just disband...

EDIT: they need this:

ringring · 2012-12-20, 10:06 AM

Isn't it intrinsic within the size of the continent population? I mean, cont pop has scaled up from PS1 (by 3-4) and therefore shouldn't the active outfits?

It's ironic. If outfits want an identity they have to grow to the point to which individual identity is lost.

Outcasters generally roll with several squads, maybe 30 people on an average day maximum. We generally achieve stuff, but I'd say we don't have the impact that we would in PS1 with those numbers (to be expectd).

What we have started to do over the past few weeks is cooperate with other outfits, Rffnex and BMC.

We organise our ts servers so that a couple of people from each outfit can communicate and we coordinate our attacks.

I would like to see a PS2 that had outfits working together in alliances and retaining their identity than outfits breaking up and forming a mega-outfit.

Hmr85 · 2012-12-20, 10:08 AM

Quality over Quantity. That is all I have to say about it.

Storn · 2012-12-20, 10:12 AM

As I am on a smaller server small teams/outfits are still effective but have to be mindful of the zerg; however, the side with most people (VS) seems to steam roll. I guess this works into what most are saying which if you don’t have the numbers your a speed bump. The access that attackers have to facilities doesn’t help. Not sure what can be done

HiroshiChugi · 2012-12-20, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Hmr85

Quality over Quantity. That is all I have to say about it.

i say this with EVERYTHING! Literally :P

Hamma · 2012-12-20, 10:16 AM

I said not to mentions specific outfits... fail on post #3

HiroshiChugi · 2012-12-20, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Hamma

I said not to mentions specific outfits... fail on post #3

i couldnt help it, they just don't know how to run themselves lol

Whiteagle · 2012-12-20, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by HiroshiChugi

Well i know that on my server, there is one outfit that EVERYONE knows about; ****. They constantly spam invites and have even tried to invite people from the outfit I'm in, if I'm not mistaken. I am in teh 2nd biggest outfit on the server (The First Cavalry Division) and people don't even say anything about us. It's always about ****. I fear that we may soon have no choice but to dissolve into ****, even though our leader will have no part of it. In my opinion, outfits SHOULD have size limits, and possibly have to pay money to increase the capacity of that outfit even.

Ugh, shame to hear that man...

We smaller Outfits on the Red side of Waterson don't have that big of problem, even though we've got TotalBiscuit's Let the Brit Drop AND Angry Joe's Angry Army...

I think this really boils down to base defensibility, right now it's mostly who brings the most numbers that wins.

Take a base with any kind of defensibility against vehicles, like Raven's Landing on Amerish.
The other night, my Outfit The Mobile Infantry [TMI], maybe two open squads worth of people trying to fight a **** zerg rush fell back to Raven's Landing after it was clear we couldn't save Auraxium Firearms Corp.

We held that little base for maybe an hour and a half... and it, was, AWESOME!

At one point we were the only Hex the TR held, so every Smurf in Southern Amerish was banging at our doorstep!

By the time they finally gotten a tank rush together to keep us Spawn Camped, our Zerg had been left alone enought to recap the two hexes next to our Warpgate.

ringring · 2012-12-20, 10:20 AM

A couple of other things I'd like to add.

Some of the (possible) changes I have been banging on about would help smaller outfits, e.g. engineering deployables and minefields which with other changes make outposts and bases more defensible.

And it's true, at present once the zerg gets moving you are nothing but a small bump in the road.

The second thing is that Higby has said in the past that he want to make or maintain space for spec ops type activities to still have a role. Now, given that spec ops isn't suitable for the larger 100+ outfits then I'd assume that Higby is open to good suggestions on improvements that might be made.

Beerbeer · 2012-12-20, 10:21 AM

The problem is server population.

Merging servers would provide for more smaller platoon level action on the periphery of the the main zerg and brighten up activity on multiple continents.

Simple solution.