Ghost capping zergs - air domination everywhere else - wordt 2x event ever.

Ghoest9 · 2012-12-22, 11:51 AM

-No one is defending because its a total waste of time xp wise.

-So attackers are just moving in giant zergs from undefended base to base(which are even harder to defend against).

-If you try messing around in smaller forces you are quickly dominated by air.

Thers is practically no fighting for anyone except air picking off clueless small groups. And Noob defenders who get rolled imediatly when the zerg shows up.
This is not fun.
Im hardly kiling anyone any more(and my average k/d is still about the same.)

EDIT: Ghost capping zergs - air domination everywhere else - WORST 2x event ever.(if a mod could happen to fix my title that would be nice.)

Thunderhawk · 2012-12-22, 11:55 AM

The fliers dont care as long as they're getting the points, and the zerg doesnt care as long as its gettign the points, so I can only assume you're being steamrolled by both ?

Wait till prime time, when things settle down, the Double XP is going to be on for a week, so the mad rush to get kills today will quiten down and average out over the course of the week.

Ghoest9 · 2012-12-22, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Thunderhawk

The fliers dont care as long as they're getting the points, and the zerg doesnt care as long as its gettign the points, so I can only assume you're being steamrolled by both ?

Wait till prime time, when things settle down, the Double XP is going to be on for a week, so the mad rush to get kills today will quiten down and average out over the course of the week.

Last night was this way too.
The game play has changed - mainly because this is the most rational choice at group level.

But my guess is that zerg DOES care at an individual level and its making players unhappy.

Sifer2 · 2012-12-22, 12:25 PM

Yeah it's like this even during normal gameplay just amplified by double xp time.

There are several root causes of the behavior:

Bases for the most part are too difficult to defend. AMP station especially. But now also the Tech Plant after the changes. The Bio Lab is the only one where defenders have a chance if they don't greatly outnumber attackers. Outposts of course feel like a waste of time to defend to begin with since most of them are not placed in strategically significant areas, and there is nothing like lattice to force you to care about them. You just grab them after they are empty for free xp.

Lack of direction. The sheer number of places to go causes people to scatter. Nothing like lattice to force the zergs to fight each other. So they end up going around each other as it's easier an more profitable. But ultimately more boring. I don't necessarily feel the map is too big. Just that there are too many junk outposts that draw people apart, an encourage ghost capping.

Air is highly mobile which perfectly adapts to this flawed gameplay. When your in an ESF you never miss out on free ghost cap. Just watch the map an zoom to wherever is about to flip to your side. It's also easy to pick off all those scattered ground forces with pods. You also see Liberators taking advantage of the above mentioned poorly defensible bases by spawn camping the completely open unprotected outdoor spawn rooms.

**Malorn** · 2012-12-22, 12:28 PM

The OP isn't crazy - I've observed the same behavior lately, especially late at night. I like to occasionally join random squads and try to be a typical casual player and see how different types of players and outfits experience the game.

This is what I typically see in larger groups - players roll around in a blob from territory to territory getting capture XP and avoiding the enemy. When the blobs meet it is by chance, not intent. When players try to stop the blob they usually get rolled and have little choice but to find their own team's blob and roll with it. Larger outfits have the numbers to chance this behavior, which is why I don't see it on ops. Seen several reddit threads pop up about this sort of thing too.

Seems to be a combination of playing the territory control game + path of least resistance....but it isn't fun...at all. Its the exact opposite of what I experience in outfit play where we intentionally go after the enemy and pick fights because that's where the entertainment is.

Any feedback from the PSU community on contributing factors to this behavior? I have my own thoughts but I'd like to learn what y'all think is going on here.

Joeaniator · 2012-12-22, 12:36 PM

i think no one defends is because it is just so hard against big groups u have no chance because there is no walls around the small outposts and towers. I have been in planetside 2 since a month after the beta started and i and all my squad have not managed to defend a base against a armor colom or air squadrent even though we have the bigger numbers, you are just to exsposes in the bases and there is not enough defences (turrets, Walls, Trenches and ceilings to prevent air strike it is a very good game but when you get attacked you have no chance against big zergs (not organized)

PurpleOtter · 2012-12-22, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

The OP isn't crazy - I've observed the same behavior lately, especially late at night. I like to occasionally join random squads and try to be a typical casual player and see how different types of players and outfits experience the game.

This is what I typically see in larger groups - players roll around in a blob from territory to territory getting capture XP and avoiding the enemy. When the blobs meet it is by chance, not intent. When players try to stop the blob they usually get rolled and have little choice but to find their own team's blob and roll with it. Larger outfits have the numbers to chance this behavior, which is why I don't see it on ops. Seen several reddit threads pop up about this sort of thing too.

Seems to be a combination of playing the territory control game + path of least resistance....but it isn't fun...at all. Its the exact opposite of what I experience in outfit play where we intentionally go after the enemy and pick fights because that's where the entertainment is.

Any feedback from the PSU community on contributing factors to this behavior? I have my own thoughts but I'd like to learn what y'all think is going on here.

With no apparent gain to base defense vrs. capping unoccupied territory for the benefit of acquiring 'certs to pay for unlocks at extortion level prices why would anyone do anything else? I realize that much of the current meta game design choices are deliberate, but from a player perspective I don't think it is working as intended. You, the collective "you" at SOE, made some design decisions that are at odds with each other. After unlocking the three load out slots EXP is meaningless and 'certs are the only real currency in game. The other major issue is base design and layout. I get that you want to encourage "game flow" and discourage protracted sieges, but the structures as they are currently are basically markers for places to meet and shoot at each other. The wise cracks about no doors or windows on Auraxis really are apt!

Tatwi · 2012-12-22, 12:49 PM

I think it's simply a matter of people taking the path of least resistance to "win". It's no different than Alterac Valley in WoW. Even though the original rules for AV were better for encouraging long PvP battles with neat player driven events, quite a few of those events are still in AV today, yet they are never used. Instead, both sides pass each other in the field and complete the PvE objectives in a race to see who will "win" first. And people complain when one side "turtles", forcing PvP by actually defending their own base and PvE objectives. Personally, the most fun I had in WoW PvP was an AV turtle.

Sadly, it seems that's not what people want. Some want a good fight, while most just want to maximize their xp per hour.

If SOE removed XP, certs, and resources then folks might actually fight each other more consistently. There would be nothing else to "optimize" or "maximize" or "min/max", etc. Terrible suggestion of course, but it proves the point that the problem is with the players and not the game. We can't have nice things (like balanced character advancement through side grades), because people focus on the wrong things, losing sight of the purpose of the game: to have fun blowing stuff up with your friends.

Ghoest9 · 2012-12-22, 12:52 PM

I think the causes are fairly straight forward.

1 playing defense doesnt earn many certs for ~70-90% of the players anymore. Playing offense always earns cert(if you move with the zerg.)

2 Medium size groups(10-30 players) are not viable unless they are highly organized with their own dedicated air support to defend them from enemy air roamers.

Figment · 2012-12-22, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

-No one is defending because its a total waste of time xp wise.

-So attackers are just moving in giant zergs from undefended base to base(which are even harder to defend against).

-If you try messing around in smaller forces you are quickly dominated by air.

Wait.

Wasn't it you who said people should always up and leave bases when they were outnumb... I mean "lost" the outpost?

Wasn't it you who said people shouldn't expect to be able to make a defensive stand?

So now that people actually do up and leave and avoid the zerg they can't beat, probably even log or log onto the winning empire's side because winning nets you exp and defe... I mean, "losing", doesn't, you complain about lack of targets to shoot and lack of fighting?

Nice.

Biohazard · 2012-12-22, 12:59 PM

Dynamic base defense XP, the longer and harder the fight the more you get. This would be a powerful incentive to fight and seek the enemy.

Figment · 2012-12-22, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Biohazard

Dynamic base defense XP, the longer and harder the fight the more you get. This would be a powerful incentive to fight and seek the enemy.

Definitely. Same for resecures (maintain that a resecure should be instant, rather than tug-o-war).

Ghoest9 · 2012-12-22, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

Wait.

Wasn't it you who said people should always up and leave bases when they were outnumb... I mean "lost" the outpost?

Wasn't it you who said people shouldn't expect to be able to make a defensive stand?

So now that people actually do up and leave and avoid the zerg they can't beat, probably even log or log onto the winning empire's side because winning nets you exp and defe... I mean, "losing", doesn't, you complain about lack of targets to shoot and lack of fighting?

Nice.

No that is not what I said - and lets not muck this thread up with personal stuff. I like insulting you but If you want to fake call me out do it in another thread.

PurpleOtter · 2012-12-22, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by Tatwi

I think it's simply a matter of people taking the path of least resistance to "win". It's no different than Alterac Valley in WoW. Even though the original rules for AV were better for encouraging long PvP battles with neat player driven events, quite a few of those events are still in AV today, yet they are never used. Instead, both sides pass each other in the field and complete the PvE objectives in a race to see who will "win" first. And people complain when one side "turtles", forcing PvP by actually defending their own base and PvE objectives. Personally, the most fun I had in WoW PvP was an AV turtle.

Sadly, it seems that's not what people want. Some want a good fight, while most just want to maximize their xp per hour.

If SOE removed XP, certs, and resources then folks might actually fight each other more consistently. There would be nothing else to "optimize" or "maximize" or "min/max", etc. Terrible suggestion of course, but it proves the point that the problem is with the players and not the game. We can't have nice things (like balanced character advancement through side grades), because people focus on the wrong things, losing sight of the purpose of the game: to have fun blowing stuff up with your friends.

Imagine if they did the following:

1. Hid stats like K/D
2. Cert's were only passive gain via time played
3. Reduced the cost of unlocks by 50%
4. Upped the resource cost per vehicle/aircraft and extended the timer

Sturmhardt · 2012-12-22, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Any feedback from the PSU community on contributing factors to this behavior? I have my own thoughts but I'd like to learn what y'all think is going on here.

Uhm.. what do you think it is? It's exactly what folks have been complaining about since beta: The fucked up hex system. People are encoureaged NOT to search the fight, it's always easier to cap stuff that is not contested. It's a very old problem and nothing new and it's built into the hex system - as you probably know because you have been one of the good posters here once.

I don't have an easy solution for this and I don't want to suggest the lattice here, but right now this lonesome zerg (without opposition) behavior is highly encouraged by the hex system.

Edit: The incentive to NOT engage your enemy also is a problem on a meta level. If one faction has a strong presence on one continent, the other 2 automatically go somewhere else where they can be the winning zerg steamrolling empty bases.