Why A2A is a waste of time.

Tooterfish · 2012-12-29, 07:35 AM

I think we can all agree that the ESF Pods are a huge problem for infantry right now. It has been said over and over that Air is the superior counter to air. I do not want to start a new debate about this, but I would like to point something out.

Right now, if you spec A2A, you are essentially playing a charitable role for your team. I am exclusively A2A. I can wipe out squads of ESF's with little effort, as many of you probably can also. The problem with being responsible for taking out other ESF's for my infantry buddies, is that I can go all day long without earning one kill. I have brought it up in the past, and I'm bringing it up again now, because I think that by allowing people to continuously suicide when they realize they've been beat is a huge discouraging factor to blowing certs and/or money into being an effective interceptor. This is especially true, considering how a pod ESF can farm infantry all day long, and these folks (infantry) can not simply self-destruct, thus they (pod'ers) benefit greatly.

If the counter to ESF is another ESF, then we need to consider, seriously, rewarding blatant suicides with cert gain and a kill point to us A2A guys. I really do think that more people will be attracted to this role in the game, and Air will be more about tactics than farming.

ShadetheDruid · 2012-12-29, 07:40 AM

Yeah, they really need to do something about people being able to bail out any time they like. Even something as simple as not letting you get out unless you've landed, or even disabling bailing if you've taking 50% or more damage.

The former would have the advantage of stopping accidental bail outs too.

Edit: That said, I still find A2A combat fun regardless of annoying suiciders.

Sunrock · 2012-12-29, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Tooterfish

I think we can all agree that the ESF Pods are a huge problem for infantry right now. It has been said over and over that Air is the superior counter to air. I do not want to start a new debate about this, but I would like to point something out.

Right now, if you spec A2A, you are essentially playing a charitable role for your team. I am exclusively A2A. I can wipe out squads of ESF's with little effort, as many of you probably can also. The problem with being responsible for taking out other ESF's for my infantry buddies, is that I can go all day long without earning one kill. I have brought it up in the past, and I'm bringing it up again now, because I think that by allowing people to continuously suicide when they realize they've been beat is a huge discouraging factor to blowing certs and/or money into being an effective interceptor. This is especially true, considering how a pod ESF can farm infantry all day long, and these folks (infantry) can not simple self-destruct, thus they (pod'ers) benefit greatly.

If the counter to ESF is another ESF, then we need to consider, seriously, rewarding blatant suicides with cert gain and a kill point to us A2A guys. I really do think that more people will be attracted to this role in the game, and Air will be more about tactics than farming.

I know it's frustrating to just get assist kill on the ESF it self as it crash into the ground. But I don't see a solution to get reward for the kill as I believe it should be a viable tactic to eject.

But what is most important is the exp you get for your work. So I think it might be a better idea to up the exp for killing ESF's with 100 exp.

BTW as a Lib pilot you never get any more kills then an A2A ESF either...

ShadetheDruid · 2012-12-29, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

But I don't see a solution to get reward for the kill as I believe it should be a viable tactic to eject.

Well, there is that ejection seat cert sitting there unused because you can just jump out any time. If people really wanted to eject and do epic things (in the event of a change where you can't just do it all the time), they could take that.

Redshift · 2012-12-29, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by ShadetheDruid

Well, there is that ejection seat cert sitting there unused because you can just jump out any time. If people really wanted to eject and do epic things (in the event of a change where you can't just do it all the time), they could take that.

I agree with this, don't let pilots bail without the cert, that kinda makes sense, since bailing as a pilot is pretty much suicide anyway.

I'd keep bailing for passengers without a cert as it's handy for lib gunners to hop out to repair before the wheels touch down,

Baptist · 2012-12-29, 08:20 AM

I posted off topic so moving it to a different thread sorry.

Baptist · 2012-12-29, 08:34 AM

P.s. I'm a tit I posted this in the wrong thread....

Sunrock · 2012-12-29, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Baptist

This is the way we choose to play the game, and this is the solution to the problem we found, although there are still far to many Tanks and aircraft in this game in my opinion.

Shout out to all the Miller NC!

You can play the game as you like. But if you don't want to take full advantage of your arsenal its your problem if you run into trouble.

Best thing about this game is all the vehicles and anyone that try to lobby SOE to change that is going to have a debate with me.

Of course infantry has it's place in the the game but it's not the most important factor that has to be in the focus.

Yuzral · 2012-12-29, 09:10 AM

The point of the ejector seat is that you don't inherit the momentum from the aircraft and gravity is temporarily persuaded to look the other way (same way as a Gal drop) so even if you didn't pack LA you probably won't wind up smeared across the landscape. The response of whoever just shot you down is still your problem to solve though.

I'd be in favour of saying 'no leaving an ESF doing more than 150kph without an ejector seat' and upping the xp for an ESF destruction though.

Sunrock · 2012-12-29, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Yuzral

I'd be in favour of saying 'no leaving an ESF doing more than 150kph without an ejector seat' and upping the xp for an ESF destruction though.

That might be a good idea....

Captain1nsaneo · 2012-12-29, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Yuzral

I'd be in favour of saying 'no leaving an ESF doing more than 150kph without an ejector seat' and upping the xp for an ESF destruction though.

Eh, xp doesn't make that much of a difference for their destruction because you can't increase it to the point that it makes people really go into it for the xp without hurting other aspects of the game because the increase would be so much to get the action you want. I'm definitely on board with the ejection seat needed for bailing if you're going over a certain speed though. Also there needs to be a negative side effect for equipping any type of missile system simply because they're both currently straight upgrades to the aircraft rather than sidegrades.

Rolfski · 2012-12-29, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Baptist

Hi I'm Baptist an Officer in Consortium an Outfit which plays NC on Miller, I read these forums everyday before work and after, but I don't think I've posted anything as of yet.

My Outfit was having a hard time Vs Aircraft and the Tank spam primarily because we are an Infantry based Outfit, during ops we only pull Galaxies and Sunderers.
Our squad composition was two medics two engineers and the rest heavy with one infiltrator to hack terminals.
We run with around 5-7 squads on an Ops night which we do six days a week, the reason I say all this is we'd chosen the hard path, I come on here sometimes to look at the solutions to our problems against Air dominating us and all I read was flames about how we should get ESF's.

And before you all shout get Air Max's you've no Air Max's in your Squad comp, it's because they're situational, squad leaders would relay commands for certain heavy assaults to change to AA Max, or if the situation was bad the command would come from the Op's commander for a full Talon (Squad) to change to meet the threat.
Still Lib's wiped the floor with us, until two days ago, I'm happy to say we no longer have a problem with air, every Consortium member who is heavy Assault now has an Annihilator, and oh my god how it makes a difference, we are a very organized outfit you have to have a large level of organization to tell people they're NOT allowed to pull tanks whenever they want to, and NOT allowed ESF's at the drop of the hat, so one person shouting out single targets for 7 heavy assaults to is a piece of piss.

This is the way we choose to play the game, and this is the solution to the problem we found, although there are still far to many Tanks and aircraft in this game in my opinion.

Shout out to all the Miller NC!

To me it seems you wanted to post this in this thread, and yes, Annihilators are a good team-only A2G solution.

As for pilot ejection, it's a total viable and logical action. I actually prefer the ejection seat to be standard/uncertable as it seems to make more sense to me to score a vehicle disable kill when a pilot bails out plus a player kill if you shoot the ejecting pilot out of the sky.

The mid-air deconstruction option sucks though and I'm sure they will patch this.

ShadetheDruid · 2012-12-29, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Captain1nsaneo

Also there needs to be a negative side effect for equipping any type of missile system simply because they're both currently straight upgrades to the aircraft rather than sidegrades.

If we could cert into/improve our afterburners (the extra tanks, I mean), that would definitely make them a more attractive proposition to some than missiles/rockets.

yadda · 2012-12-29, 09:29 AM

They should reward additional exp to the attacker of a person who suicide just to spite them. I'm not sure what to call it, something that tells the attacker that their victim panicked and jumped out of their vehicle to their death.

Also, vehicle deconstructing isn't just air. Iv had it happen several times trying to destroy sunderers. HE rounds are pretty bad on armor and Iv had several people deconstruct on me when they knew they couldn't shake me. It's VERY frustrating and scummy.

Tooterfish · 2012-12-29, 09:38 AM

I don't necessarily agree that bailing or suicides should result in humiliation or punishment. Nothing needs to change at all. You can still jump out of your ESF, fly into a mountain, whatever you want. I hate to say it, but if you have played Battlefield 3 you may have noticed that this type of griefing is discouraged by rewarding your pursuer, or anyone attacking you during your suicide to score a kill point off of you. As a result, people fight until the end, as they should, or they eject safely, which is why we have that option in certs. Somebody please explain to me how this is a bad idea in any way.