Come out and FIGHT!

Canaris · 2013-01-21, 05:01 AM

I'm really looking forward to the January patch lots of good changes and additions to try out.
One thing that kind of bothers me and has since tech is the shields around spawn rooms and teleporter rooms giving the people inside the ability to shoot out.

I was watching the Maggy & Jimmy show or FNO as they call it

The segment on the new spawn rooms caught my attention given the new huge fields of view that the defenders of a base can now just shoot out of and not have any danger or jeopardy or retaliation from attackers.

Honestly I'm of the opinion that having a safe spawn room is fine and the ability to check and see if the enemy are camping it but I feel that those inside should need to come out to fight instead of cowering behind a shield inside to get some cheap kills and I have the gut feeling the new additions will exasperate this.

So my solution is to make all shields on spawn rooms bullet proof so neither side can shoot in or out. Make the defenders need to leave the spawn room to defend the base.

I know the draw back again stems from the attackers swamping over the spawn room to camp it but to be fair the dev's are adding in lots of ways now to exit these buildings and give far better observation points to judge just what's outside.

Anyone else feel this way?

Redshift · 2013-01-21, 06:34 AM

The idea is that it becomes a bad idea to shield camp so you need to defend from further back, it's still not really a good solution.

Mox · 2013-01-21, 07:21 AM

Is that what they understand by better defensible bases? Just make it easier for the defender to killwhore while being camped at the spawns! What a stupid idea! Is there some celebral virus at soe hq.....

Dougnifico · 2013-01-21, 08:12 AM

Honestly, those spawn rooms are hard to camp as intended and should work very well assuming you limit the field of view from the shields.

Kerrec · 2013-01-21, 08:19 AM

It is the intention of the new spawn rooms to be able to murder anyone "stupid" enough to be in line of sight of it. The spawn rooms themselves are going to be placed in areas where they cannot offer any kind of defense to the actual objectives. So it doesn't help one little bit if everyone is inside the spawn rooms while the objective is being taken.

In order to defend the objective, they WILL have to come out and fight.

Figment · 2013-01-21, 08:22 AM

That's pretty much why I stated the spawnroom should be a safe room with an infantry buffer zone inside the same building - and the CC should be reachable from there.

Because then the defender does have to leave the spawnroom if they want to get kills and if they want to defend, but they're more able to defend at least.

The upcoming system only solves direct spawncamping and risks turning it into spawnfarming, where staying inside the box is more beneficial to your K/D.

The design problem I think they're not willing to compromise on is that they do not want to create much larger buildings (size of towers and slightly bigger) everywhere out of an irrational fear of PS1 Interlink farms and wasting development time (which is what they're doing now).

The design elements of the building itself are generally good - just it lacks the buffer zone between "ultimate safety" and "ultimate danger", both are retained in this new design.

Canaris · 2013-01-21, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

That's pretty much why I stated the spawnroom should be a safe room with an infantry buffer zone inside the same building - and the CC should be reachable from there.

Because then the defender does have to leave the spawnroom if they want to get kills and if they want to defend, but they're more able to defend at least.

The upcoming system only solves direct spawncamping and risks turning it into spawnfarming, where staying inside the box is more beneficial to your K/D.

The design problem I think they're not willing to compromise on is that they do not want to create much larger buildings (size of towers and slightly bigger) everywhere out of an irrational fear of PS1 Interlink farms and wasting development time (which is what they're doing now).

The design elements of the building itself are generally good - just it lacks the buffer zone between "ultimate safety" and "ultimate danger", both are retained in this new design.

going to coin this now, "pillboxes" is how they will be referred to in a few days after the patch goes live and it won't be a term of endearment

ringring · 2013-01-21, 08:32 AM

I must admit I look on the one-way shooting from the spawn rooms as a Darwin survival test. If you allow the people inside to kill you you have failed the test. And oddly many people do (even though I often say not to stand in from of the shield).

I feel the same about the new spawn room. But, you're right about it being more open. If the openess makes it impossible to get the right angles to be able to hold it down then it fails.

But, given the comments on FNO about being concerned about making it a fortress then it seems the devs are on the ball about this.

It should not be impossible for it to be camped by infantry (given that we can't destroy spawns in ps2) while it should be impossible for it to be camped by aircraft and tanks.

We can only wait and see it in action.

Canaris · 2013-01-21, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by ringring

I must admit I look on the one-way shooting from the spawn rooms as a Darwin survival test.

We can only wait and see it in action.

it's so true, shame about rebirthing tech ruining the Darwin system though.
I know we need to see how the changes play out but that little devil was sitting on my shoulder while I watched the FNO he tells me all sorts of bad things, would be remiss of me not to mention my concern

Sledgecrushr · 2013-01-21, 08:51 AM

Im excited to see the new defensive structures. I think its going to be good fun.

psijaka · 2013-01-21, 08:52 AM

I'm happy enough with the changes, and it's worth a try at least to see how it works out in practice. Anyone stupid enough to go prancing around outside a spawn shield get what they deserve.

Figment · 2013-01-21, 09:13 AM

Obviously.

First to say "If you get spawnfarmed, fight somewhere else!" is going to be the new catch phrase of the Status Quo.

Although I will maintain that a building revision is (still) needed. >.>

At least we got them to provide wider entrances and a decently protected roof and they're basically listening to the suggestions, that's definitely positive. Now if only the entire building was bigger.

Please note, I AM glad they're revising the buildings. But I'm not going to be content too soon, SOE devs have this tendency of overshooting marks either which way (often on purpose "to find the proper balance").

Sledgecrushr · 2013-01-21, 09:31 AM

I am really hoping that with these changes that the fighting will hit a new level of intensity and that intensity will last a bit longer. I love the initial fighting at most of these bases but it quickly devolves into a boring spawn camp. Fingers crossed on this one.

Hamma · 2013-01-21, 09:43 AM

Yea I can't say I'm a fan of defenders being able to shoot out and with the size of these doors and the number of windows it will be even easier for people to sit inside and camp.

I think there should be a timer in the spawn room - once you spawn you have 20 seconds to get out or you are killed. That way people can't sit in there farming with no fear of being killed.

bpostal · 2013-01-21, 09:50 AM

This all stems from the simple fact that spawn tubes should be destroyable. Plus their status should be shown on the map so that they can be responded to if necessary.
As to the change itself, I don't mind it as much. It looks like it can be used as a pillbox as Canaris said, with the ability to provide suppressing fire in support of a push outwards into the base. As long as the field of view is somewhat restricted to the immediate area then I don't see any major issues.