The Impending Magrider Nerf.

Assist · 2013-01-25, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by Higby

@AngryKelvin manuverability, which is the most important stat. VS vehicles are consistently outperforming NC&TR because of their agility.

Anyone else feel this is just another example of people who do not play the game enough? There's more Liberators in the air then there are MBT's on the ground and they want to nerf the Magrider? I'd love to see ratios, since the HE nerf, of kills to MBT spawn for each faction. You want to nerf something then fix the NC MAX, but my guess is that won't happen since Higby plays NC.

You want to know why it's outperforming Higby? It's because it's the only unique vehicle in the entire game. Go ahead and nerf it's agility, in the meantime give it a gun turret that's half as good as the Vanguard or Prowler. The Magrider has agility because you gave it a turret that doesn't shoot half as vertical as the Prowler or Vanguard and it cannot move horizontal at all. Give it two shots like the Prowler or an invulnerability shield like the Vanguard. If you nerf the agility of the Magrider it'll be completely useless. It's already the worst tank 1 on 1 with any weapon setup. You guys are big on statistics and data comparison, please show us the numbers you're looking at to justify the Magrider nerf.

Fix the Vanguard acceleration, don't change a vehicle that is overused because it's unique. The Prowler is more than fine as it is, it can run circles around a Magrider faster than the Magrider can spin to keep hitting it.

SeraphC · 2013-01-25, 07:03 PM

Keep your hands off my MAX! Ask em to buff yours instead, if it even needs buffing. 90% of the whole MAX story is people having an inferiority complex about theirs.

About the Magrider: I really couldn't care less about the strafing. It's their thing. NC gets a shield, TR get siege mode. I've never met a Magrider and thought: "Oh noes, it can strafe, I'm doomed."
The lack of drop on the other hand, that's something that does piss me off. It's not even logical, why would a ball of plasma not be affected by gravity. If they want their nerf that's where they should start looking.

If it were up to me I'd give all Vanu weapons drop.

maradine · 2013-01-25, 07:13 PM

Which weapon are we talking about? The main gun drops at the same rate as all the other MBTs.

Neutral Calypso · 2013-01-25, 07:17 PM

What is that I smell? *sniff*

It smells like... vanu tears.

*sniff*

Delicious~

ChipMHazard · 2013-01-25, 07:20 PM

The Magrider is the best MBT in most situations, imo. The Magmower doesn't have a turret, it has a fixed forward mounted cannon. I wouldn't mind giving it a turret, with the required balancing that would require like less maneuverability and/or being more fragile.
Why would you want to have it fire two rounds in order to deal the same damage as one normal round, which would also require it to have two cannons? You are aware that the Prowler is weaker because of what comes with having two cannons in PS2? You also want it to have the Vanguard's shield along with it's boost?
How is the Magmower the worst tank in an 1 on 1? It's argueably the best as it also has the best secondary weapon, unless they've changed it since last I played; the Saron. Along with the best agility. The fact that its cannon does less damage per hit is alleviated by its ability to dodge incoming fire.

The Vanguard is basicly fine how it is. The Prowler most certainly isn't and it won't be running around a Magmower faster than said Magmower can turn to fire on it. The Prowler's speed advantage is miniscule.

I would rather have the devs give the speed boost to the Prowler, the shield to the Magrider (along with a durability nerf) and the anchor mode (ideally something entirely different) to the Vanguard. You are right about having to balance air along with the MBTs, making MBTs easier to destroy by other MBTs are going to make them even easier to take out with rocket pods, which should also be changed imo.

Chewy · 2013-01-25, 07:26 PM

Im not one that can debate over mags as I don't have much time with them. Will say that they are a BITCH to hit if they see you, at any range. Any other tank has only 2 ways they can move and are easy to adjust for. Working as intended? Yeah. Overpowered? Maybe, it's not for me to say. Though Id love to see them be a lot looser in controls. Like being on wet buttered ice, hard to get moving and hard to stop as well as not being able to stay on a slope without input to counter gravity.

In truth the main reason Im posting is to ask why the NC MAX hate? They have shotguns that are CRAP at any range outside of 10m. I run with dual Matlocks (Matchlocks? Can't remember, the ones that are suppose to have the best range) and still have to use an entire mag to kill someone from across a room. If Im not covering a door or inside a compound I have to run from fights or get shredded from the constant reloading needed. TR have the better MAXes if you ask me, they have more range and the ammo to take on a small group. VS MAXes, kinda meh. Never see one of them do great so they might need a bit of a buff. Though they are Zoidbergs, that may be a reason why.

ChipMHazard · 2013-01-25, 07:35 PM

Off-topic: The problem with Scattermaxes, as I see it, is that they are only good at close range they are however also too good at close range. This becomes a problem in areas like the Bio Lab where it outperforms other MAX's. It's a problem with base design forcing players into very tight quarters in order to cap a point.
They should have given it different chokes to better balance it for different ranges, or just gone with an HMG design instead of going with the shotgun. Shotguns are a bitch to balance properly when only one faction has them, when it comes to MAX's.

LoliLoveFart · 2013-01-25, 07:54 PM

Lets not scream the sky is falling just yet.
That tweet is in regard to someone asking about ESFs.
Mag was nerfed in beta.
Chances are there will be a balance pass with tanks. My money is on the prowler getting some love.

But when the tears reach critical mass you can always rely on the nerf stick coming out to play.

ringring · 2013-01-25, 07:58 PM

Magrider is the best tank. That's 2 games running for the VS.

Saintlycow · 2013-01-25, 08:02 PM

Less nerfs, more buffs

ChipMHazard · 2013-01-25, 08:04 PM

Aye I would always prefer it if they just buff what needs improving instead of nerfing what is already great.
We do know that the Prowler is going to be getting a buff of some sort.

LoliLoveFart · 2013-01-25, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by ringring

Magrider is the best tank. That's 2 games running for the VS.

Of course it is. It is the most flexible tank.
TR had/have some of the best infantry weapons.
NC have well, shotguns.

If you take away the magriders mobility you effectively take away the only strong point of the magrider.

Buff the other tanks. Everyone agrees the prowler needs some love. Well those who can stop frothing at the mouth long enough to stop screaming for nerfs to everything that kills them that is.

Chewy · 2013-01-25, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

Off-topic: The problem with Scattermaxes, as I see it, is that they are only good at close range they are however also too good at close range. This becomes a problem in areas like the Bio Lab where it outperforms other MAX's. It's a problem with base design forcing players into very tight quarters in order to cap a point.
They should have given it different chokes to better balance it for different ranges, or just gone with an HMG design instead of going with the shotgun. Shotguns are a bitch to balance properly when only one faction has them, when it comes to MAX's.

Kinda agree. Always said that shotguns aren't my thing for them having limited ammo and range. Id trade them for a HMG the moment another SC sale comes or if they are cheap on certs. Far to often I find myself needing to fight a ranged battle when using shotguns and get killed or run out of ammo. Had a shotgun on my NC engie for a long time now and he's a beast indoors, but SHIT outside. Even with slugs a shotgun is crap at range. Getting the weapon with the under-slung smoke ASAP once my certs get there.

Slugs (for the Mauler) take 3 shots to kill. They have an insane drop to them and only have tracers for ever other shot, plus the COF is horrid if you're not ducked and sitting still. Not even going to bring the recoil into this. The best I can do with slugs is from tower landing pads to the tower tops. Any more and no being able to see half of the shots makes me sniper bait with the time needed to line up, fire and make the 3 shots needed.

No game in my opinion does shotguns right. I see a shotgun as a shock weapon. Crap for armor (shields and MAXes unless it's slugs) but flesh stands no chance. Put them on their asses up to 45m away depending on the weapon. It's like all games use Birdshot instead of Buckshot.

igster · 2013-01-25, 08:24 PM

I actually fear the prowler more than the vanguard to be honest. The vulcan is a horrible gun to face. There are some terrible disposable prowler and ligtning gunners out there who dont realise not to keep their rear end hidden. But I have noticed that the prowler drivers are definitely on the ascendancy now - starting to come up against some good tank teams now.

I really do think that the factor that gives the magrider it's edge is the fact that we keep our rear hidden by default. So even the bad drivers tend to face forwards because they want to shoot that way. This isn't the case for the vanguard and the prowler. It actually gives the Magrider a big natural tendancy to not show your weakness.

ChipMHazard · 2013-01-25, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Chewy

No game in my opinion does shotguns right. I see a shotgun as a shock weapon. Crap for armor (shields and MAXes unless it's slugs) but flesh stands no chance. Put them on their asses up to 45m away depending on the weapon. It's like all games use Birdshot instead of Buckshot.

I completely agree.

igster: Aye the Vulcan is just silly good, from what I've seen, when you get close enough. That is of course the problem... I also have the feeling that it will be getting "balanced" at some point, heh.