Vanu and balancing after the newest patches

Chris Talon · 2013-02-16, 02:49 PM

Greetings everyone,

I would like to constructively discuss the current balancing of the Vanu vs. the other factions after the newest patches. As I see it, few things have been done at all to actually nerf the Vanu. I can see that the developers are trying to buff the other factions before taking away from one but this strategy seems to have failed overall.

As I have stated in the past, I see the current imbalance (meaning: Vanu overpower) as a result of the devs good intentions to create something special, yet failing to do so by implementing proper drawbacks.

Examples are widespread and discussed in pretty much every forum and they include:

Magrider overpower due to having special advantages (dodging bullets, saron) as well as having no disadvantage (same armor as prowler).
- As I see it, the mobility of the tank shouldn't be nerved as this is what is special about this tank. However the armor should be nerfed to the absolute minimum of the mbts, leaving the magrider highly fragile (as in the fluff).
--> The only current change to this was the nerf to the saren which barely seems to have affected the game at all. Much whined about strafenerfs seem to be merely bugs.

Nightfighting advantages due to pitch black uniforms
- needs no explanation and could be fixed by making parts of the uniform glowing/giving them lights.

Very easy weapon handling/overpowered infantry weapons
- again, the bullet drop thing here should not be changed because this is the special thing about the vanu.
--> The solution could be serious nerfs to actual horizontal spread, smaller magazines, reduced rate of fire, etc.

This is all so far from me, so what do you think ?

And please keep discussions civilized and to vanu players - please be objective here and try to give good reasons if you disagree with the above statements.

Cya Chris

Pella · 2013-02-16, 02:53 PM

I honestly dont see why the VS require further nerfing.

ESF: The scythe is terrible compared to the mozzie.
Tank: Magrider is now on a level playing field with the NC/TR tanks. Prowler being slightly better.
Weapons: Same applies. All the TTK stats are equal across all types.

As for night time fights. [NRV Scope] Only 30 certs.

Just after launch i would of said yes, they need a nerf. But now its even stevens.

Thunderhawk · 2013-02-16, 03:02 PM

Please play a VS char for 1 Week, then re-read your post.

@OP

Silent Thunder · 2013-02-16, 03:02 PM

The one thing I have noticed is the Vanu owning a bit more land as of late, but I attribute that to the canyons just being a bitch to take. God knows how many times Ive seen people try to funnel the Prowlers through those narrow canyon passes. Makes me tear my hair out. I don't say nerf Vanu, I say Nerf SE Indar!

EDIT: Also I agree with the above post. Before making any claims of being Underpowered or Overpowered, one should spend a few days playing as the faction is question (Or simply the other factions if it's an UP claim). Hell they give you three characters, put one for each in the high pop server of each region (West, East, and EU).

ShadetheDruid · 2013-02-16, 03:45 PM

VS weapons are fine as they are. They (as well as TR weapons, to some extent) just have the advantage of ease of use. In my mind, default weapons should follow the "easy to use, difficult to master" mantra, which VS (and TR) weapons do.

The solution to balancing isn't to make one faction's weapons harder to use, that just screws everyone (but newbies especially), the solution is to make sure the defaults are newb-friendly out of the box (ie. no attachments). Currently NC fails this test, or at least they did. I haven't used NC defaults since beta.

I agree with the suggestion of playing VS for a bit. I found VS weapons to be annoying beforehand (although I recognised their mid range accuracy to be the point of their default weapons), but since playing them it doesn't bother me anymore. You might be able to, for example, hit people at mid range with long bursts or even full auto - but you'd be surprised how much effort (and ammo, for that matter) you go through to do it because of the damage and fire rate being average.

BIGGByran · 2013-02-16, 04:14 PM

I play all three factions, but my main is NC.

VS I (mostly) play as: Engineer/Magrider.
TR I (mostly) play as: Heavy Assault/Medic
NC I play as: Every class. I rarely play any Vehicle or Max.

TR and VS Starting Weapons are:
1) Easier to use due to low recoil
2) Fast rate of fire, giving them the advantage in Close to mid range fights
3) have decent to good reload speeds
4) slightly lower damage per bullet

NC Starting Weapon are:
1) slightly harder to use because of higher recoil
2) Low rate of fire giving us a slight disadvantage in close combat, but about the same in mid range if you control your shots
3) Slightly slower reload speeds
4) slightly higher damage per bullet

-I think the Magrider SEEMS fine right now. I don't see it as overly produced as it use to be, but it still has it's dodging capability. Still very hard to hit at decent to long ranges.

-I never noticed the Saron, maybe it is because I don't play vehicles much, but I hear it was/is OP. I have shot it a few times as my VS and loved it.

-If VS needs a nerf at anything, it is their clothes! Nerf their clothes! They have a natural camo for night and inside buildings, very very hard to see them.

Graywolves · 2013-02-16, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by ShadetheDruid

The solution to balancing isn't to make one faction's weapons harder to use, that just screws everyone (but newbies especially), the solution is to make sure the defaults are newb-friendly out of the box (ie. no attachments). Currently NC fails this test, or at least they did. I haven't used NC defaults since beta.

Currently the NC6 Gauss Sniper-Automatic-Weapon(SAW) doesn't require burst fire when ADS ~50meters. With no attachments, iron sight. Flinching remains annoying, hip fire got a little easier, there's a bit of a learning curve but once you figure out a certain trick it's pretty beast even with seemingly large bloom.

I think the Vanu are fine for the most part, I prefer fighting them as opposed to NC currently (opposite of launch).

The tanks are pretty balanced Tank to Tank. Magrider still has a huge advantage over new BR1 HA who didn't spend a dime on the game because the 5mph bright rockets are significantly easier to dodge.

Nothing huge needs to be changed anywhere, just some very minor tweaks.

Shamrock · 2013-02-16, 06:22 PM

Not sure if serious...

Assist · 2013-02-16, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Pella

I honestly dont see why the VS require further nerfing.

ESF: The scythe is terrible compared to the mozzie.
Tank: Magrider is now on a level playing field with the NC/TR tanks. Prowler being slightly better.
Weapons: Same applies. All the TTK stats are equal across all types.

As for night time fights. [NRV Scope] Only 30 certs.

Just after launch i would of said yes, they need a nerf. But now its even stevens.

The only people who think the Vanu are overpowered are the forumwarriors who don't play the game.
I'd argue that the Magrider is worse than the Vanguard, which is worse than the Prowler. Weapons the VS have the only weapons that cannot be compensated for by the skill of the player. They are what they are, and that's terrible at range.

As far as the VS being even, I'd disagree there as well and I think the only true measure we have of that is the population of the VS across all servers. Take a look sometime, I've a feeling people will be surprised who don't play Vanu. I'm not playing them anymore, until they're addressed. Why should I when faction loyalty is clearly discouraged by the game mechanic setups. Can't wait for the account-wide unlocks.

Ghoest9 · 2013-02-16, 08:37 PM

@ OP

I never play Vanu but they do NOT need all these nerfs you want - there are better ways to get balance.`

-The mag rider issue should be dealt with by buffing other tanks.

-Vanu weapons should not be nerfed but something should be done about NC starter weapons. And the flinch code itself should be changed.

Vanu do not need to have more glowey uniforms. If you make glowing purple/pink it looks gay - (or should I say what is percieved as gay). Theres nothing wrong with gayness - but most players dont want to look that way.

The better answer is to offer a dark camo option for everyone.

Over all it just seems like you want to make Vanu less fun rather than make the game balanced.

BIGGByran · 2013-02-16, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

The better answer is to offer a dark camo option for everyone.

I don't think it's fair that I have to pay to have the same advantages as the VS stock clothes.
Or if you meant free then, still no. Just make it where everyone's difficulty to see another faction the same at all distances. I think this would be best.

I'm not saying completely change the color of their clothes, but make the green pop out a little more, just a little.

NC, to me, are the easiest to spot at night. TR are about the middle ground, as they are somewhat hard to spot. But VS it's just very difficult. Day time, no issues.

Thunderhawk · 2013-02-16, 10:53 PM

All these complaints about VS being seen at night is making me want to stop using all these Camos I bought and stick to VS stock....

Is it really that bad ?

BIGGByran · 2013-02-16, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by Thunderhawk

All these complaints about VS being seen at night is making me want to stop using all these Camos I bought and stick to VS stock....

Is it really that bad ?

lol yes!! and when I play against VS, I wonder why they waste their money on camos when the stock ones are so so much better!

Day time, camos work for VS but at night, revert back to stock!

You should try playing a different faction and fight a few good hours against VS at night and especially at night in a facility.

Outside VS Standing still or Moving, they are hard to spot.
Inside VS Standing they are hard to spot. Moving a little bit easier to spot depending on distance.

Koadster · 2013-02-16, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by BIGGByran

NC Starting Weapon are:
1) slightly harder to use because of higher recoil
2) Low rate of fire giving us a slight disadvantage in close combat, but about the same in mid range if you control your shots
3) Slightly slower reload speeds
4) slightly higher damage per bullet

1) Dont go full auto all the time, Burst fire.
2) Low rate of fire is compensated by higher dmg per shot then VS/TR and you have faster velocity then TR guns
3) Check the weapon stats. NC reloads faster then TR but slower then VS
4) That is your factional trait which is the offset to your slower ROF.

NC HA starting weapon.. you get HA ammo, Compensator and advanced foregrip (Carv doesnt get any of that). If you cert into those it becomes an absolute beast, you only need to place 5 body shots to kill due to the 200dmg per shot.

I would gladly pay 700SC for the default NC carbine over my Trac5 or T5 AMC. Love the merc especially with LA class.

Again, NC guns require a different play style. Its more a marksmen faction then a spray and pray faction. Before someone rages about this post Ive played NC for quite a few hours and generally maintain a 3-4KDR as infantry only.

BIGGByran · 2013-02-17, 12:12 AM

@Koadster
lol you just stated what I said.
I prefer the GD-7F over the stock gun. AMAZING rof! Full Auto Hip Fire and of course burst for shots outside hip fire range.

HA stock gun is great for mid to long range, but heard it wasn't great at close due to the ROF. I use the EM1 with Adv Laser, softpoint ammo and 1x scope for amazing cqc and decent mid and Gauss Saw S with 2x scope, Forward Grip and compensator for good cqc and good mid range.