Planetside 2 as Social Experiment

Babyfark McGeez · 2013-02-16, 04:48 PM

Probably a lot of you have experienced something similar when going solo:

TR on Indar (now SW WG), just having capped Quartz Ridge. You look on the map and see the NC zerg capping the area east of it, going towards Allatum (or even worse, have allready capped it) and you know after Allatum they will go west to Hvar.

You look around and see everyone riding north, to the tower (excavation site?). So you mention the situation in /RE (incase it works) and do what would make the most sense: Driving east, to cut off NCs attack and prevent them from denying you tech AND cutting the northern advance off.

Now in 2 out of 3 cases the following happened to me:
Instead of some going north and some going east everyone except me went north. Everyone. If i had people in my vehicle they would go as far as jumping out even if it would take them ages to walk back to the zerg. Then we loose the area west of Allatum and then Hvar, denying us tech AND cutting off all the terrain captured north.

What the heck is up with this? I don't think that i can blame it fully on the "farm moar certs" mentality. That's why i suspect some social herding mechanic is at work here.

Once more, it's not that it has happened to me once and i just want to express my facepalm feelings, this exact situation as described here happened atleast five times now.

So, what is my point? I'm not sure, maybe i want to encourage someone to make an actual social study about herd dynamics in Planetside 2. i also want to hear some stories from you people. And i guess maybe i also wanted to share these frustrational moments and slap some sense into my fellow TR comrades on miller.

maradine · 2013-02-16, 05:02 PM

I regularly lose randoms when our bus pulls out and they realize it's not following the zerg. They'll walk 500m back to where they started and grab a flash rather than follow a small group to the cutoff or a supporting action.

Why? Who knows. Maybe our bus smells. But I can anecdotally confirm for you; it's definitely a thing.

MrZero · 2013-02-16, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Babyfark McGeez

You look on the map and see the NC zerg capping the area east of it, going towards Allatum (or even worse, have allready capped it) and you know after Allatum they will go west to Hvar.

fake nc never go as far to hvar they stay at allatum to skillsaw farm 4 lyfe

Eliphas · 2013-02-16, 05:15 PM

There have been several studies on this same human behavior. Some simple examples would be an individual walking into a room with several others staring at something on a wall. The new individual would naturally proceed to find the reason for the wall being of interest. Or several individuals standing in an elevator facing with their backs to the door. When someone new walks in they may stand facing the door but in the end they will follow the others by facing away from the door as the others before him/her.

Silent Thunder · 2013-02-16, 05:22 PM

Reminds me of the (probably anecdotal) tale of an expiriment involving some lab monkeys, a ramp/pedastal/stairs (details seem to change depending on who tells it). They put them in a room, and when the monkeys try to get the food placed on the pedastal. When they do this, all of them are sprayed with cold water. Eventually the monkeys refuse to go for the food. Next one of the monkeys is replaced by a new monkey, who when attempting to get the food, is attacked by the others. This continues untill none of the origional monkeys are left, but they will still attack each other for attempting to get the food, even though, since they weren't in the origional group, they had no way of knowing about the water.

I suspect it sometimes is the same here. Nobody knows what the zerg is doing or why, they just know "Shit if that many people are going that way, they must be right!"

Tatwi · 2013-02-16, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Babyfark McGeez

Probably a lot of you have experienced something similar when going solo:

TR on Indar (now SW WG), just having capped Quartz Ridge. You look on the map and see the NC zerg capping the area east of it, going towards Allatum (or even worse, have allready capped it) and you know after Allatum they will go west to Hvar.

You look around and see everyone riding north, to the tower (excavation site?). So you mention the situation in /RE (incase it works) and do what would make the most sense: Driving east, to cut off NCs attack and prevent them from denying you tech AND cutting the northern advance off.

Now in 2 out of 3 cases the following happened to me:
Instead of some going north and some going east everyone except me went north. Everyone. If i had people in my vehicle they would go as far as jumping out even if it would take them ages to walk back to the zerg. Then we loose the area west of Allatum and then Hvar, denying us tech AND cutting off all the terrain captured north.

What the heck is up with this? I don't think that i can blame it fully on the "farm moar certs" mentality. That's why i suspect some social herding mechanic is at work here.

Once more, it's not that it has happened to me once and i just want to express my facepalm feelings, this exact situation as described here happened atleast five times now.

So, what is my point? I'm not sure, maybe i want to encourage someone to make an actual social study about herd dynamics in Planetside 2. i also want to hear some stories from you people. And i guess maybe i also wanted to share these frustrational moments and slap some sense into my fellow TR comrades on miller.

You forgot the part where the VS roll 2+ platoons through xroads xenotech rege t rock vanu archives peris, yet our "orders" chat demands reinforcements for... The Crown.

So sad that I am often the *only* person defending our amp station... Not that it matters, given how the VS zerg seems to just disappear after Peris is taken. So very strange that is! So was their magic +10% pop for two hours last night.

BIGGByran · 2013-02-16, 05:53 PM

It's just that people want to win and following a large zerg that has been winning will grant them more win/exp/certs.

Follow the path of "success" or the path of uncertainty?

My platoon in SolTech try to lead the zerg 1 way, while we go the other to cover more ground.

Ghoest9 · 2013-02-16, 08:43 PM

@ OP

1 If you care about winning the map - WTF are you solo?

2 Many people are playing for certs not map wins. The zerg is guaranteed points.

Babyfark McGeez · 2013-02-16, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

@ OP

1 If you care about winning the map - WTF are you solo?

2 Many people are playing for certs not map wins. The zerg is guaranteed points.

I like how you care to post something, yet completely miss the point of the thread and even manage to sound dickish. Nice work lol.

So just FYI, this was about why often the zerg has zero situational awareness and if it happened to you too, not to tell me the obvious and critize how i play.

Tatwi · 2013-02-16, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Babyfark McGeez

I like how you care to post something, yet completely miss the point of the thread and even manage to sound dickish. Nice work lol.

So just FYI, this was about why often the zerg has zero situational awareness and if it happened to you too, not to tell me the obvious and critize how i play.

Don't feel bad. I've found that I honestly perform better as free agent, rather than attempting fulfill a platoon/squad leader's ill concevied "strategies" (which often amount to little more than "kill those things over there NAO!", without any consideration as to how said objective might be accomplished). I'm observant and seem to naturally work with others who are around through our actions, which is actually a very rewarding phenomenon.

Also, wow this game sure is AngryVOIPuserside 2. After the trauma of several years of telephone tech support, I am elated to have that part of my life over. As a result, I very rarely use VOIP in games. In fact, I think I only do it to punish myself.

Rasui · 2013-02-17, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by BIGGByran

It's just that people want to win and following a large zerg that has been winning will grant them more win/exp/certs.

Follow the path of "success" or the path of uncertainty?

My platoon in SolTech try to lead the zerg 1 way, while we go the other to cover more ground.

Bingo, it's all about the "Winner Effect". Winning triggers a spike in testosterone which makes them feel good. Losing has the opposite effect. Guess which one your average video game player is going to choose?

Chewy · 2013-02-17, 01:52 AM

This herding thing happens even in outfits. I roll with DVS so I don't have to suffer pub squad after mic/brain-less pub squad for a good fight/time and there has been MANY times where I happen to look at the map and see some bad shit about to happen (WG getting cut off, "enemy platoons detected" one base over, ect) and my calls of warning go unheard. Maybe it's that Im not a ranking member and just ignored or that the current fight is taking to much attention of the leaders, but I have to repeat warnings of such things a few times over mostly. Then 10ish or so minutes later others finally see the map, speak up, and we (or another platoon) move out to meet the threat with it often being to late to save a key base.

Im certain that this happens to all outfits for more than a few reasons. Most are because of those in charge are to focused on the task at hand to stop and look at the map or call for sitreps. Thing is, even if the leaders are on their game it can take a long time for orders to be followed thanks to players not wanting to move out so they can farm more, not knowing why it's needed, or who the hell is giving the order.

I think that a lot of the zerg and mob mentality could be controlled better if we had better ways to communicate with each other and other platoons. Never was a fan of anyone in a platoon being able to talk over platoon chat and to a degree outfit chat (text seems fine as is because it can be ignored easy, but voice is another beast). The way I see how the chats should work is that only the leaders can use higher chats. Squadies can only talk over squad, squad and platoon leaders use platoon voice chat, and only platoon leaders as well as outfit officers get use of outfit voice chat. Then there's special chats that act like proxy but with the range of RE or YELL and only allow talking between squad/platoon leaders of other platoons squad/platoon leaders (cert option?).

Basically limit the amount of voice chatter people hear to who they need to hear (proxy still good for person to person) and have a CLEAR showing if the ones talking are in a leadership role. That way orders can be heard without having to talk over constant crap and have a chance at getting a way to organize pub platoons without 3rd party programs (teamspeak). Voice coms can get cluttered with chatter with as few as 5 people. When you have up to 48 in a platoon, how ever many in teamspeak, and only god knows number of proxy chats orders get lost EASY.

Fenrys · 2013-02-17, 11:23 AM

OP, you might find this article interesting:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-planning.html

Metalheads in mosh pits act like atoms in a gas. That's the conclusion of the first study of the collective motion of people at a rock concert . . .

They found that the dancers' speeds had the same statistical distribution as the speeds of particles in a gas. . .

They found that by tweaking their model parameters – decreasing noise or increasing the tendency to flock, for instance – they could make the pit shift between the random-gas-like moshing and a circular vortex called a circle pit . . .

human beings are very complex creatures, and yet we can develop a lifeless computer simulation that mimics their behavior . . .

If you increase the flocking or decrease the density of the simulated moshers, the active participants can break down the circle and just stream through the crowd

My hypothesis is that zerglings on Auraxis act like metalheads in a low density moshpit who have a high tendency to flock. Instead of going where they are supposed to be (in the pit), one of them wanders off following the path of least resistance, and the rest form a flock behind.

This flocking behavior provides the same benefits for zerglings of Auraxis as it does for tunas of the Pacific - safety from predators and enhanced foraging.

Ghoest9 · 2013-02-17, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Babyfark McGeez

I like how you care to post something, yet completely miss the point of the thread and even manage to sound dickish. Nice work lol.

So just FYI, this was about why often the zerg has zero situational awareness and if it happened to you too, not to tell me the obvious and critize how i play.

Umm you missed my point.

Your talking about a "social experiment" that for some reason presumes everyone's objective is to play for a map win.
Yet you yourself arent even doing the most basicthing to help with a map win - working as a team.(yes a solo operater can totally swing a map but not when hes trying to move with the main force driving a sundy.)

It looks like the individuals in the zerg are being rational - and you arent.

Babyfark McGeez · 2013-02-17, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

Umm you missed my point.

Your talking about a "social experiment" that for some reason presumes everyone's objective is to play for a map win.
Yet you yourself arent even doing the most basicthing to help with a map win - working as a team.(yes a solo operater can totally swing a map but not when hes trying to move with the main force driving a sundy.)

It looks like the individuals in the zerg are being rational - and you arent.

You must be trolling lol.

But for the last time: I presume NOTHING. I simply OBSERVE what is happening. And this is not about ME or HOW I SHOULD PLAY in your opinion but about how THE ZERG IS BEHAVING. You know, those other people that make up the majority. The situation i described in the OP happened to me regardless of being in a squad or not. Switch "me" with "my squad" and you have exactly the same result.

And that most people play for certs and not for a map win is a given, even though you seem to insist that would be news to me. But there is A REASON "the zerg" heads into a specific direction that results in backfiring for the whole team (even mindless farmers like their MBTs).

THAT is what this thread is about.

Fenrys analysis is more like it lol.