So people can bail and instagib you now??

Bags · 2013-03-02, 01:25 PM

I was killing a lightning as a prowler and I guess he bailed, and the game placed him behind me (because fuck logic I guess, we were right next to each other so he had no place to bail but it still let him bail) and then I died instantly from full hp to 0 from a tank mine.

is this intended? you can put mines on stationary targets and they instagib? and you can bail through vehicles?

man I just thought the game was fun again

but uh it's apparently worsely bug ridden and horribly balanced than it was in december

or is this intended? ??

Ghoest9 · 2013-03-02, 01:31 PM

Or maybe tank fights so close that you rub is an oddity that allows for other oddities?

Aurmanite · 2013-03-02, 01:39 PM

Sometimes stuff like this happens. It's not really 'meant to' but it's all part of the laws of probability.

Why the feels about a random event, bro?

ChipMHazard · 2013-03-02, 01:43 PM

Yes, mines don't trigger because of movement or pressure. They are basicly just AT proximity mines. They shouldn't instagib you if you have enough health, if he was actually only using one mine.

Hamma · 2013-03-02, 01:58 PM

We have had several threads on this.

In short yes, you can place a mine and pretty much instakill tanks.

In my opinion it's extremely stupid and should not be allowed at all. Just waiting for someone to say learn to play as an answer to putting down a mine under an object they are standing next to and thinking that's something that should be normal.

Ghodere · 2013-03-02, 02:00 PM

An enemy bailing from a nearly-destroyed vehicle seems to take a few moments to render. This is long enough for a well-placed rocket or mine to be placed before the enemy is ever seen.

Aurmanite · 2013-03-02, 02:03 PM

Every single time my tanks get killed by mines I stop and think to myself, "I can become 100% invulnerable to this if I choose to do so."

So when I die to a mine, I realize that I've made a choice and that death is the result of it.

More people should do that, and come to peace with themselves, rather than complaining about a tool to gives infantry a bit of power against vehicles.

Hamma · 2013-03-02, 02:05 PM

So it's ok for infantry to just place something that is supposed to be a stationary passive destructive device underneath an active vehicle thereby making it an active method to kill thing?

The device should not be used in that manner that's not the use it was intended for. It's an overpowered ability of mines because of their very nature.

Aurmanite · 2013-03-02, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

So it's ok for infantry to just place something that is supposed to be a stationary passive destructive device underneath an active vehicle thereby making it an active method to kill thing?

Yeah.

Originally Posted by Hamma

The device should not be used in that manner that's not the use it was intended for. It's an overpowered ability of mines because of their very nature.

I disagree.

Mines are meant to destroy vehicles. They're doing that quite well right now. If you die to mines it's: A) Because you drove over them (what you have defined as the intended function of the mine), or B) You were stationary long enough for the most vulnerable unit on the field to get with in inches of your machine of death.

You shouldn't let B happen at all costs. If it does, you should accept the death as your fault for not certing invulnerability, and/or succumbing to someone who has out played you.

Ghoest9 · 2013-03-02, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

So it's ok for infantry to just place something that is supposed to be a stationary passive destructive device underneath an active vehicle thereby making it an active method to kill thing?

The device should not be used in that manner that's not the use it was intended for. It's an overpowered ability of mines because of their very nature.

Its not really any different than sticky bombs etc - some of the oldest anti-tank methods of all.

That said Im in favor of a 1 or 2 second set up time for all mines.

Baneblade · 2013-03-02, 02:33 PM

That's what happens when you have enter/exit teleporters and not proper animation.

Varsam · 2013-03-02, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

Mines are meant to destroy vehicles. They're doing that quite well right now. If you die to mines it's: A) Because you drove over them (what you have defined as the intended function of the mine), or B) You were stationary long enough for the most vulnerable unit on the field to get with in inches of your machine of death.

You shouldn't let B happen at all costs. If it does, you should accept the death as your fault for not certing invulnerability, and/or succumbing to someone who has out played you.

No. Mines in the traditional sense are not primarily for destruction (though they're quite capable of doing so), but for area denial and zoning.

Mines in ps2 should not even be called mines. They are vehicle killing superbombs that do not necessitate premeditated placement or lengthy setup process, and can even be thrown from on high to gib vehicles below. They are incredibly easy to use, and the reward for doing so is disproportionately high.

I use these things all the time. I abuse the shit out of their potential killing power. Why? Because the game rewards me for doing so. And I will continue to take advantage for as long as I can, because that's what the game design encourages me to do.

That being said, mines are ridiculously op against vehicles without mine guard, and are basically useless against those with it. The disparity here is just too great. The prevalence, ease of use, and difficulty of detection of av mines basically necessitates mine guard on all vehicles. This limits player choice and leads to stagnant game play.

Bags · 2013-03-02, 04:05 PM

He might have used two, IDK I had 90% health before he bailed. All I know is I killed the lightning, didn't get an actual kill, realized he had bailed, and he was behind me. I went third person and exploded.

there was no indication that he bailed and I did not see him leave the vehicle, so my guess is the game bugged out and put him behind me. Unless he managed to chuck a mine or two, and then run all the way around me, and then be about 10 feet from me in about a second...

[MOUNTAIN][lightning][prowler][him]

instead of doing - "you can't bail there's no room!"

But yeah the whole incident was mind boggling unfair and buggy. Bleh. What's the point of C4?

Aurmanite · 2013-03-02, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Varsam

No. Mines in the traditional sense are not primarily for destruction (though they're quite capable of doing so), but for area denial and zoning.

Mines in ps2 should not even be called mines. They are vehicle killing superbombs that do not necessitate premeditated placement or lengthy setup process, and can even be thrown from on high to gib vehicles below. They are incredibly easy to use, and the reward for doing so is disproportionately high.

I use these things all the time. I abuse the shit out of their potential killing power. Why? Because the game rewards me for doing so. And I will continue to take advantage for as long as I can, because that's what the game design encourages me to do.

That being said, mines are ridiculously op against vehicles without mine guard, and are basically useless against those with it. The disparity here is just too great. The prevalence, ease of use, and difficulty of detection of av mines basically necessitates mine guard on all vehicles. This limits player choice and leads to stagnant game play.

Seems like a lot of people run without mine guard, probably because the other options are more attractive in their opinion. I don't run mine guard on anything but the Sunderer, as it is the only vehicle that must be stationary to perform its function. This is a choice that I, and everyone else has to make when loading out their vehicles. It wasn't an easy choice either. It seems to me that when the options available require serious consideration, we have a good system.

I agree that mines should be a little easier to detect. In the original Planetside you could see them before you were in range to set them off if you were in first person. That should be the case in game too, making players choose between driving in third person for situational awareness, or driving in first person to detect any mines.

The rest of your post doesn't really say anything of value about the use of mines in game. Using tools effectively is part of being a good player, you aren't abusing anything. Besides, even though you can get relatively steady kills with mines, they definitely do no make up the largest portion of your kills/xp/etc. That fully loaded Sunderer pinata you popped that one time included.

If calling them mines upsets you so much, call them something else. I won't mind I promise. I.E.Ds, anti-vehicular explosives, triangles of boom, whatever.

ChipMHazard · 2013-03-02, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

But yeah the whole incident was mind boggling unfair and buggy. Bleh. What's the point of C4?

From what I've seen, the point of C4 seems to be to take out turrets, infantry and MAXs', primarily MAXs'.