GU04 Passive certification gain.

[Falcon_br]

Ok guys, am I the only one that think the game is now officially p2w?
From day one (really from the beta) I defend that this game is not pay to win, because of several factors we like to tell, like the default weapons are good enough an things like that.
My principal argument was, you can buy weapons, but you can't buy certifications! Don't matter if the guy got all weapons in the game if he doesn't play the same as you do to buy nano weaver armor and weapons attachments.
Now with GU 04 you can buy certifications! The passive certification gain has been already reduced a lot I don't know if it was reduced in GU 01 or GU 02, but I agreed with that because I think that certifications must be award, no received free.
Now with the GU the increased certification gain means in numbers:
48 certifications each day. Free members receives 12.
Doing the math this means in the end of the mouth(30 day): 1080 certification more them the free member!
The game was release in the end of November but I can be wrong. I got 9000 cents in 300+ hours of play (playing everyday), that guy would received 5780 certifications doing nothing, more them 50%!
You already received 500 SC with membership plus 1080 means the best way to unlock things it is with membership now, it isn't playing like there is no tomorrow.
I really think or I will stop playing tomorrow or I will get a 1 year subscription, after all the money I already spent on it I don't think I can stop playing it right now.
That's my point the following line hasn't anything with the subject.

Just one question for members, when do you more them a month, how does it shows on you credit card? 1/12 each month (9.99) or you must pay everything (120) at once?

I made some test today after the new patch, I am now a dedicated (from a pure heavy assault) liberator pilot (for fun) and my gunner got lots and lots of tanks and liberator kills, I received exp for that around 80 because of my alpha squad boost,bBut he received 10 times more because of the vehicles kills!
In the end I received 60 certifications for 2 hours of piloting, he received 90 without any boost! This need to be fixed ASAP!

[Varsam]

It's all at once per pay period of your choosing, not month by month.

As to the original topic.

The game MUST be pay to win on some level. Some would argue that the resource boost subbed players get means more vehicles, grenades, aircraft, which means more winning. Some would argue that the xp boost we got means more certs for the same amount of work, which is p2w. This is another example. While I'm not going to agrue that it's NOT p2w, it's certainly not ridiculous (we already got free certs before, and it's not enough of an increase now to radically tip the scales, even though it is significantly more than before). If there was no incentive to pay for the game, no one would do it, and then none of us could play.

I guess what I'm getting at is: yes it seems we're entitled to a different experience than f2p players, but that's because we pay money.

[Rothnang]

I think the new passive cert gain is great.

I do agree though that Liberator pilots get fucked over, I used to gain easily 1000 certs a week when I played Infantry, now if I play every day it's maybe 500 piloting Liberators, because you just don't get shit for XP in the pilot seat. With every AA buff it's gotten worse and worse too, because the more over the top ridiculous AA gets the less you can afford to go low and use the tankbuster and get some XP too.

[EVILPIG]

More like wont-pay-to-cry. Seriously, some won't ever give a dime and want the world. The game MUST make money. Not lose money. Not give away money. Not break even. Giving free certs is nothing like buying uber, cash only, OP weapons of mass destruction.

[Rothnang]

Yea, quicker cert gain is a pure convenience, it gives you no advantages that you can't get from free to play.

And also, Planetside 2 is an awesome game, people shouldn't get so stingy with it. Even just a little money into PS2 goes a long way, and unlike many Free to play MMOs it has no features that are only accessible to members, so you don't need to continuously pay them to keep all the stuff your character has.

[Falcon_br]

I don't think some of you understand my point.
The principal argument to defend that this game is not pay to win it was that you must play to win certifications.
That's not the case anymore, certifications now can be bought and in large quantity in a very continent way, if you are wiling to play.
You can't buy levels yet, but the point of leveling in this game is always (most of the time) to receive certifications.
I don't recall any free to play game where you can pay to level up your characters and crush everyone.
Yeah, it is not a weapon of mass destruction, but each month (more actually), without playing, but paying, you can max out a vehicle and have serious advantage against a dude that played a lot without paying.
You already got boosters like all free games, I can live with that, but a serious advantage without playing is a huge disappointment to me.
Planetside 2 already got lot of moves just to make you spend money each month, they make new sniper rifles and nerf the old ones, so you must spend nc, they make shotguns you buy them and they release a new one pump action, that it is instant kill, they release a smg and 2 weeks after another smg that it is a lot better them the first one! And next week they will release a new shotgun and I bet it will be much better them the pump action so you must buy it too! I just have 3 load outs, I can't use all that weapons!
And I already got most rocket launchers, with the new one I won't be using the old ones anymore!
The worst time for me it is when I must tell to my fellow outfit members that's the game is ok and we must continue to have fun without worrying that they don't give a F to this game, they just want profit. Metagame won't ever be their priority, just new ways to make you spend NC.

[Sturmhardt]

I think it's fine. If you don't pay a penny for a game you can be expected to put a little more work into your certs than paying subscribers.

.sent via phone.

[Emperor Newt]

There already were xp boosters, so by the op definition the game already was pay to win.
And the membership really needed something like this to make it attractive again.

Although, I agree, that something is wrong with cert gain balance in this game. But this has nothing to do with membership or boosters, but with differnt playstyles and farming (and not playing the game but farming).
At least shared experience in vehicles and (by choice) squads/platoons please.

If there was no incentive to pay for the game, no one would do it, and then none of us could play.

For many people "supporting the game" and some cosmetic stuff is enough. Luckily we now have Dota2 and can see how this turns out. If Dota2 is financially succesfull the "people need an incentive to pay" (like p2w is the only incentive) argument is moot.
We already have LoL but there one might argue that some of the heroes are released op and of course because of runes.

The game MUST make money

That's not an argument. Drug dealers must make money too. Not give it away or break even.
Not saying that SOE should not make money (or are drug dealers) but the "they mus make money" and "companies exist to make money" is simply no argument for any kind of business decision. It's a bit more complicated than that.

[Falcon_br]

Dude, a little it was before GU 04, do the math, now you don't have to play to be better them the free users!
I do 1000 certs each week because I play a lot and got the alpha squad boost, normal free member on my outfit make 1.500 each month!
People with auraxis membership do 1.500 certs without killing anyone. Much more if they play the game a bit.

[Falcon_br]

Angry Joe already complained that playing 70 hours to unlock a weapon it was bullshit, it was already forcing you to do that with 700 SC, now you can also pay a membership and don't have to play 70 hours to have the same benefit.
The difference it was that you had to play to get certs, now you don't.

[Falcon_br]

When Luperza told about the new certification gain from paying members, I just heard one guy complaining that was a subscriber, Luperza also commented that he was the only one against it, but he was clear that being better them the others without playing it was too much.
I think that the best solution it was to increase the SC given with membership to 1.000, so it would be just like the alpha squad, you buy SC and receive small bonuses with it. I am ok with that.
But when that guy complained it was already too late for Luperza do something about it, I also think this topic is useless, because they can't go back anymore with this, because it is already live and they won't give back the money to the people,that subscribed to receive all that bonus.
But the scat max topic is also useless, people already spent lots and lots of sc on scat max weapons, we already asked to change it to heavy gauss in beta, and they didn't, now they can't do that, the only viable solution it is giving shotguns to all maxes or create a new weapon like the flamethrower from the beta and make all the other weapons useless, like they did with the standard shotguns.

[Blynd]

Tbh the offline cert gain is a bit too high but with the xp increases and as its 250xp per cert then actual game play will balance out the offline certs

[Silent Thunder]

Im gonna say it before Hamma brings the Hammer. Please don't triple post, especially on your own thread. I keep coming back thinking people are contributing to the discussion, to instead learn you don't understand how to use the edit button.

[Falcon_br]

Sorry dude, I am using an iPad to access this forum, it is hard to awnser everyone in just one message in a small screen a different subjects, but from now I will just awnser from the PC so I don't need more the one message to replay to the points here.
From what I recall from planetside 1, Hamna was not that evil, but I don't know how all those years have affected him, so it is better for me to ready the rules again so I will be sure I am not giving him any reason for that.

[psijaka]

No problem with this at all.

Purists may argue that passive certs for members, XP boosts etc are P2W, and maybe they are, but only in a small way. It doesn't break the game, and is an acceptable way for SoE to make money.