Another help thread for sys building! Yay!

AwkdShellfish · 2013-03-19, 02:03 AM

1. Are you building this computer yourself or having one built for you?
Myself

2. What is your budget and does that include shipping/taxes?
As low as possible, free shipping is always nice.

3. Where do you live (Please list town, state, and country)?
Southern California, between Los Angeles County and Orange County.

4. What do you need this computer to do (like gaming, Photoshop, and so on)?
Gaming is nice, Photoshop from time to time; this computer is something I plan on leaving on for long periods of time (downloading), so preferably something not power hungry. I don't plan on using this thing to game 24/7, but occasionally I would like to game.

5. What parts will you need for the computer? List what parts specifically, saying you need everything will not do.
Case, motherboard, vid card, ram, two hard drives, one for boot & one for storage, cpu, thermal paste? (haven't done one in so long I've forgotten).

6. Are you reusing any parts for this computer? If so say what parts (make and model).
Yes. Three of them. Maybe 4.

Thermaltake Silent PurePower W0009R 420W ATX12V Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817153006

Thermaltake CL-P0024 Copper Cooling Heatsink
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835106044

Vizio E472VL
http://store.vizio.com/e472vl.html#support

The fourth item is actually an old optical drive I have, but I don't know if I can make it work seeing how it has an IDE slot and the motherboard I picked out doesn't seem to have an IDE.

7. What kind of monitor/resolution do you have or want to get to use for the computer?
As much as this thing can put out.

Vizio E472VL
http://store.vizio.com/e472vl.html#support

8. Do you have already have a OS or do you need one? What OS is that?
Windows 7 Ultimate. 32 and 64 bit.

9. What are you looking for the motherboard to have feature wise? Like SLI, Crossfire, Firewire, USB 3.0, Sata 6.0 Gb/s, and so on.
SLI and Crossfire is nice for the future.

10. Any plans to overclock the CPU or GPU?
Absolutely no, as I don't know how to and I don't plan on doing so.

11. What time kind of time frame are you planning on ordering these parts?
ASAP?

I already have a list to make it a little easier... if anyone can put down some input, it would be great! Thank you!

Corsair Carbide Series 500R Black Steel structure with molded ABS plastic accent pieces ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811139009

ASUS P8Z77-V LK LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...scrollFullInfo

SAPPHIRE 100358L Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 CrossFireX Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814202011

CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233143

Western Digital WD RE4 WD5003ABYX 500GB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...scrollFullInfo

Western Digital WD Black WD2002FAEX 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136792

Search Results for Intel CPUS.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...G&PageSize=100

Again, any input would be greatly appreciated. I recently lost my laptop and external hdd so I was considering getting another laptop again, however I was pondering whether it would be more cost effective to go this route and have an upgraded path or headache free with a put-together laptop, and of course a much smaller screen. I'd just figure a regular desktop would be harder to steal if I bolt the sucker down!

AwkdShellfish · 2013-03-19, 02:04 AM

One last thing I forgot to mention. Will that old CPU heatsink fit onto a 1155 socket?

Ailos · 2013-03-19, 03:15 AM

No, that heat sink will not fit an LGA1155. But if you're not looking to overclock, you don't need anything that beefy - the heat and fan that comes with the processor will be plenty.

The power supply you're wanting to use limits you to a Radeon HD 7750 (no additional PCI-E rails) and only one hard drive and optical drive (only has 2 SATA connections total). On the same note, your optical drive won't be compatible with the modern boards, and although we could find you one that has legacy support, it's probably cheaper just to get a SATA optical drive (they're a dime a dozen nowadays).

The parts you listed are not ideal for your stated goals... for any number of reasons, but the best way I can illustrate it is that the total comes to $750, and that doesn't include important pieces like the CPU, the power supply, or the optical drive.

If you're going to have a "boot drive" and a "storage drive", might as well make that boot drive an SSD. The difference between that and a platter is like night and day. The only justifiable reason for buying multiple platters today is if you're going to have a RAID 0+1 or RAID 1 (or other paired) setup for security reasons.

No intention of overclocking means you don't need a Z77 chipset - any 7-series chipset will do fine.

SLI/Crossfire is not a good future-proofing technology. X-firing to 7770s will bring you up to a 7870ish level of performance, but only if your motherboard supports a second slot at PCI-e x8 (rather than the more typical x4), and if AMD's driver team decides to include the game you're wanting to play as part of their work (which really doesn't seem to be the case for any titles I've been wanting to play recently). So that's $110 for the original card, $110 for the second down the line, a $50 upfront premium on the motherboard, and another $10 or so for a beefier power supply. Total cost: ~$280. The cost of a 7870 LE - which will outperform any 7770 array - is only $240. Moral of all this is that SLI/Crossfire is not a future-proofing technology. You will end up paying more for less performance than if you bump your card up now and then swap it out for a single GPU later on when you need to. I learned this the hard way with my pair of 5770s. Oh, and the whole GHz edition - that's just a marketing gimmick.

Taking all that into consideration, here's the build I'd recommend as a starting point:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/KHXs

Why I picked the parts that are in there:

Your stated goal of occasional gaming pretty much requires a discrete GPU, which means the on-die graphics bundled with most Ivy-Bridge chips will be unused. Conveniently, the i5-3550P trades that off for a small bump in frequency and a reduction in thermal footprint (runs cooler, not as noisy). 98% of applications still can't use more than 4 cores in parallel.
As mentioned above, a Z77 chipset is unnecessary if you're not overclocking. This B75-based motherboard has everything else you will likely need in the foreseeable future.
16 GB of RAM is only necessary if you never close your programs or if you run multiple virtual machines on your desktop. Large heat sinks are rarely necessary on any memory, but it's especially unnecessary on a machine with no overclocks of any sort. Keep it simple here.
The SSD will make your every day experience on your PC incredibly fluid while the platter will give you the storage capacity you're wanting. Feel free to use larger capacity platters if that's what you need.
The 7850 2GB will give you framerates on par with two 7770s, but deliver them more consistently and with higher texture details to boot (because of the extra onboard memory), and it will do this without requiring a special motherboard or power supply. This level of card is also better matched to an i5 CPU, so your system would be more balanced in general.
Your old PSU is not only incompatible with most of these components, it's also not very safe (no active PFC or any kind of protection circuitry). Your system consumption will put you right in the efficiency butter zone for this PSU, which means not only lower energy cost, but also less heat from the PSU, and consequently less fan noise.

Total without OS: ~$730 (including discounts and shipping).
Hopes this helps you make a more informed buy.

Rbstr · 2013-03-19, 12:06 PM

I'd say some hybrid of your two lists would be best.

On Ailos's I'll only say, don't get a B75 chipset, get H77 or Z77.
H77 has future upgradability features you do want, like RAID or Intel Smart Response cacheing. And you actively don't want B75's Intel Small Business Advantage.

On yours, You've misplaced priorities some, that graphics card is weak and you don't want to have 4 RAM slots taken up right way, 2x4gb or 2x8gb (if you think you need 16gb right now) is better. I think the mobo is a pretty good choice, but you're budget-worries get than ASRock Z77 that's $30 cheaper.
Like he said, Crossfire/SLI is not a future-proofer.

You need to give a number on your budget that gives us a bit better target. "Low as possible" tends to make things hard to figure out.

AwkdShellfish · 2013-03-19, 02:27 PM

Min. $1,300 Max. $1,500.

For all the important parts, minus the case.

Thanks for the replies, at least it gives me some "footing" to ground myself.

Goku · 2013-03-19, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by AwkdShellfish

Min. $1,300 Max. $1,500.

For all the important parts, minus the case.

Thanks for the replies, at least it gives me some "footing" to ground myself.

$1,300? I'll make something up with that right now.

I'm assuming you are near the Micro Center in Tustin for this build.

From Micro Center:
Intel Core i5 3570K 3.4GHz LGA 1155 Processor - $189.99
ASUS P8Z77-V LK LGA 1155 Z77 ATX Intel Motherboard - $94.99 (w/ $40 discount combo with the 3570K)

Subtotal - $307.78 w/ tax

From Newegg:
SAMSUNG DVD Burner SATA Model SH-224BB - $17.99
Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7200 RPM Hard Drive -$109.99
Gigabyte GTX 670 - $389.99
PC Power and Cooling Silencer Mk III Series 600W Modular Power Supply - $89.99
Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 - $61.99
SAMSUNG 840 Series250GB SATA III (SSD) - $189.99

Subtotal - $924.44 w/ tax

Total = $924.44 + $307.78 = $1232.22

With Micro Center having the CPU and motherboard bundle you can get a 3570K and Z77 motherboard cheaper then you could get a lower end quad core and mobo from Newegg. Its worthwhile going there for that.

In terms of the video card I put a GTX 670 in there due to it fitting into your budget. What games are you going to be playing when you do game? Depending on what it is you could step down to a 660 Ti to same some money or even a 7870. I like the fact you can get $50 in station cash buying the Nvidia cards at the moment, so that's good for PS2.

For storage I think you are best off getting 250GB+ SSD, like the one I linked here. I included a 2TB drive as that is what you had in your own build. I'm assuming you actually need all that space.

PSU is expensive, but its a quality unit unlike what you have now. Its a bit higher wattage then you need, but it allows for any kind of expansion you may need in the future.

Power usage I wouldn't worry much about that. The GPU will be mostly idling from you downloading. I don't see the CPU having much of any difference while downloading in using a 3570K vs that 3550P either.

With the case get what you want. That Corsair one you linked is a very good case IMO.

I can't believe how much ram prices have gone up over the past few months. Me getting my 8GB was a steal @ $30.

AwkdShellfish · 2013-03-19, 03:32 PM

Well I was going to spend that amount for a laptop anyways, so why not put the money into a desktop?? At least it will pave the way for an upgrade path.

And thank you for those who replied!

Goku · 2013-03-19, 03:57 PM

What laptop were you looking at? Do you need the mobility a laptop offers? If not putting the funds towards a desktop will get you a lot more for the money.

AwkdShellfish · 2013-03-19, 04:46 PM

Tustin is just a short trip across town. Never realized there was such a place over there. I always went to Fry's Electronics in Fountain Valley if I wanted to go local.

No I have not settled on any particular laptop yet, quite frankly the same reason why I posted this thread. I have no idea what to settle for in the first place. lol

Mobility is nice, but that's also the reason why my laptop and external hard drive got stolen.

I had a MSI GX620, black with silver trim. I was really using it as a desktop replacement, so I'd figure I'd opt for a desktop this time around, and I paid 1,300 I think back in 2007. For this new system I'm thinking about bolting down some screws to the bottom of the case just to make it a b!cth to get. Nothing's impossible for a determined thief, however I wouldn't want to make it easy for him/her either. Maybe I can hook up a live line to the case just to make sure whoever touches it gets fried by a unlimited supply of juice.

Gaming is fun, sure I'll admit

, and my games in particular are nothing too high demanding. PS2, would probably be the most "demanding" game I'm thinking about. Other than that, I hop into the Assassin's Creed series, or Command & Conquer, or BFBC2 when time permits. Really my time now is actually spent having the computer on just for downloading, as work has almost taken over my life.

Now for my PSU I guess it's safe to say I can throw it in the bin? Or can I still use it for a cheapo desktop build for business use? Say, cranking out orders and receipts? And no real way to utilize my thick copper heatsink huh? Darn. I just wanted to use it rather than have it on my desk as a pretty paperweight.

AwkdShellfish · 2013-03-19, 04:59 PM

On another note, I do plan on running multiple programs at once. My poor laptop was having such a difficult time. It's age was showing. So is 8 gigs "enough?" What I plan is running photoshop, 3 different web browsers, Fujitsu Scan Snap, Microsoft Word, Ulead Photo Explorer, and a whole slew of other programs all at the same time. If I remember, the more RAM the merrier, but it might not be the case in today's computing?

Case wise, I picked that Corsair because it looked the most "professional" to me, buuttt if I had a little bit more money I'd like to go for this one.

Rbstr · 2013-03-19, 05:07 PM

In your budget, and given concern about efficiency, I'd think about getting an 80Plus platinum power supply like this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817182082

You might also think about what you want out of your hard drive setup.
How much space do you need out of a boot drive, all of your drives?
Options besides bootSSD + big disk for stuff exist like an SSD cache (which eliminates the multiple-volume hassle and potentially accelerates everything you use often). Plus
That can help you bump the cost down or can enable you to go, maybe, to an all SSD system with just a bit more $.
If you're keeping the thing on all the time, who even cares if the SSD is the boot drive? The only things that get faster with an SSD are the things on an SSD. If you're not accelerating game load times, you're making Chrome boot twice as fast? But that's only a couple milliseconds difference.

Using the old PSU:
Sure, in something w/o the need for an extra PCI connector? A lower end-AMD build using integrated graphics. I think so.

(Don't take my work for it, I haven't really looked at the connectors you've got)

AwkdShellfish · 2013-03-20, 12:40 PM

I do need another internal hard drive converted into an external. Thank you for the 2 TB Seagate recommendation. I was browsing the Newegg site and I was horrified by the failure rate of some Seagate drives, as well as WD drives.

The factory OCed vid card does concern me a bit. Doesn't OCed cards, or OCed things in general reduce the unit's life expectancy?

Goku · 2013-03-20, 04:48 PM

Some HDD have been proven to have high failure rates. That one I linked doesn't seem bad to me. Just keep in mind chances are if people have a bad experience they are more likely to put a review up about it vs having a good experience.

I highly doubt a factory OCed card from say EVGA or another maker is going to die off more quickly compared to stock clocks. Sure if you were ocing yourself and running a insane amount of voltage to keep the clock stable that probably would.

AwkdShellfish · 2013-03-22, 02:49 PM

Well the build looks almost complete, with the exception of the vid card. Ummm can anyone recommend a little lower card?

And also I was just snooping around and I saw this one for the RAM. Thoughts anyone?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145324

Rbstr · 2013-03-22, 03:43 PM

What do you mean by a "little lower" there's the 7950 @ ~$300...but you lose out on a good bit of performance. Are you just cutting $ or are you prioritizing something else. Your budget fits the 670 pretty well.

That ram is higher voltage. Not really a big deal, if you need to save $10 whatever.
On how much memory you want: What kind of stuff are you doing in PShop? Figure out how much you need now. If it's more than 8gb you'll want to go up.
You don't need more than 8gb for any current or near-future game.

I just read your thing about the Silverstone case...yikes expensive, you can get something like a Fractal Design R4 for half that...much sleeker.