Vehicles Proven Useless

Neutral Calypso · 2013-04-07, 01:49 PM

When you can get one-shot with a single rocket with no warning, it is official. Your tank is a useless piece of shit. WTB cert reset so I can get back all the certs I used on vehicles of any kind. They are all clearly useless when you can get one-shot by a Phoenix.

Rothnang · 2013-04-07, 01:54 PM

As far as I know a Phoenix can't oneshot a tank, unless there is some fuckery with physics damage going on.

That said, yes, vehicles aren't really fun these days, since the amount of firepower infantry can bring against them is just out of control. I've never been one to think that vehicles should kill infantry easily, but to me the solution was never to make infantry able to easily kill vehicles.

It's tank mines that are the most obnoxious IMO, because they just aren't visible enough. Yea yea, a mine should be hidden and all, but this is a game, it shouldn't be about simulating the aspects of a weapon that make it as hard as possible to counter in real life, it should be about creating facsimiles that have decent counterplay, and in the case of landmines that means you have to have a reasonable chance of seeing them.

Whiteagle · 2013-04-07, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

That said, yes, vehicles aren't really fun these days, since the amount of firepower infantry can bring against them is just out of control. I've never been one to think that vehicles should kill infantry easily, but to me the solution was never to make infantry able to easily kill vehicles.

Wha?

...Dude, are you one of those who went all day in a tank or something?
Because, yeah, Game has been MUCH more fun for me as both a foot-slogger AND Vehicle Operator.

JesNC · 2013-04-07, 02:08 PM

The only vehicles that can get one-shot by Phoenixes are ESF (barely) and Flashes, and then it's their own fault - FYI, even a stock Liberator can outfly a Phoenix missile. Everything else requires at least 2 missiles from a deep flanking position.

That said, I'm currently enjoying the Vanguard MBT for the first time since launch - in the past it was always left in the dust by other MBTs and even the Lightning. Changes to rendering distance and vehicle balance pushing the typical engagement ranges beyond ~100m has actually helped the Vanguard a lot IMO.

AThreatToYou · 2013-04-07, 02:10 PM

I dunno about you, but my tanking/flying/fury flash has been getting nothing but funner.

Neutral Calypso · 2013-04-07, 02:18 PM

So essentially what I am to understand is that either I was fighting a hacker, or I got hit by two or more phoenixes at exactly the same time.

I can accept that. I can't accept that one infantryman can annihilate a tank before the tank knows wtf just happened.

As for the tank mine thing, I can accept tank mines. Then it is my own dang fault for not paying any attention to the road.

JesNC · 2013-04-07, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Neutral Calypso

So essentially what I am to understand is that either I was fighting a hacker, or I got hit by two or more phoenixes at exactly the same time.

I can accept that. I can't accept that one infantryman can annihilate a tank before the tank knows wtf just happened.

As for the tank mine thing, I can accept tank mines. Then it is my own dang fault for not paying any attention to the road.

Exactly, although the chances that you got tag-teamed are considerably higher. Still, while it's incredibly frustrating it's rare for that to happen - just this week I got tag-teamed by an AV turret and a Decimator, and to me it looked like the Deci 1-shot me.

IMO I find handling NC/TR ESAV extremely easy. Against the Striker you only need cover nearby, against the Phoenix you stay at long range and keep mobile. Against the Lancer you simply have to shoot first

bpostal · 2013-04-07, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by JesNC

Exactly, although the chances that you got tag-teamed are considerably higher. Still, while it's incredibly frustrating it's rare for that to happen - just this week I got tag-teamed by an AV turret and a Decimator, and to me it looked like the Deci 1-shot me.

IMO I find handling NC/TR ESAV extremely easy. Against the Striker you only need cover nearby, against the Phoenix you stay at long range and keep mobile. Against the Lancer you simply have to shoot first

As a Striker user, we appreciate it when you fly high and slow.
Thank you for your corporation!

Rothnang · 2013-04-07, 02:34 PM

I'm mostly a Liberator pilot, and from my perspective it's been a continuous downhill slide. I get that the Liberator was overpowered in a lot of ways in the early days of the game, but the solutions that the devs put forward for that have pretty much exclusively happened at the expense of the pilots.

It's just been one buff to AA after the next, a plethora of multi-purpose weapons so that people no longer have to pick between anti armor or anti air, a ton of nerfs to the weapons on the Liberator, which I would be in favor of if it wasn't for the fact that the nerfs often specifically reduced my ability to engage from safer distances and locations, and simply the fact that the proliferation of powerful anti air weapons has steadily increased over the months.
With the XP just for barely attacking a Liberator and being able to get a thousand XP or more for killing one it's also now pretty much everyone's favorite target.
The fact that the Liberator is vulnerable to all the same guns as an ESF is also simply BS to me. That's like if an MBT was vulnerable to everything a Flash is vulnerable to. The reason to even have grades of armor on vehicles is to allow slower bigger vehicles to only go up against weapons that a slower bigger thing can reasonably avoid. With Liberators that's not the case, every single thing that's really good at killing you is designed to hit an ESF, the fastest most agile thing in the whole game, so good luck avoiding getting hit with it, ever.

Driving tanks IMO has also gotten less fun with the inception of AV Mana turrets and the general inclease in the amount of anti vehicle weapons out there. When the game launched there just simply weren't as many because nobody had spent the certs yet, these days the roads might as well be paved with mines.

I don't really know why people find the general experience of being in a vehicle better. I fully comprehend not enjoying having an overpowered unit and killing people who can't fight back, but I don't feel we've traded that for good fun fights. It rarely ever happens that I get killed and say "Wow, that was clever / skillful, well done worthy opponent" it's always "Wow, really, that is so damn cheesy".

The one thing I will say is, buffing Nanite Auto-repair has been a massive improvement to vehicles. I love flying with auto repair now, because at least I don't have to land every single time someone rips half my hitpoints off while I just merely peek my nose out to scan for targets...

Binkley · 2013-04-07, 02:55 PM

AV mana turrets have insane range and can kill a tank from ranges where they can't be seen. They are extremely tough on tank drivers. Strikers are tough, but at least you can usually see from where they are coming.

Whiteagle · 2013-04-07, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

I'm mostly a Liberator pilot...

...Well there is your problem...

Originally Posted by Rothnang

The fact that the Liberator is vulnerable to all the same guns as an ESF is also simply BS to me. That's like if an MBT was vulnerable to everything a Flash is vulnerable to.

Wait, what?

...I could have sworn the last time I shot at a Lib with Small Arms it didn't do any damage...

ringring · 2013-04-07, 03:17 PM

Well, since the last warpgate rotation I've stopped liking Indar. Those canyons are easily camped by AV turrets.

SW warpgate was a blast, nearly all the bases and outposts provided a farm and we discovered that at TI Alloys NC loved running into our guns but SE, nope.

Esamir is preferred atm.

BlaxicanX · 2013-04-07, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Wait, what?

...I could have sworn the last time I shot at a Lib with Small Arms it didn't do any damage...

Are you always this obtuse, or is sunday just a special day for you?

- - - -

In any case, I don't fly but I do pull lightning's pretty regularly (though not nearly as often as ground-pounding). I've actually never had issues with any of the rocket launchers. That may be because I always play with my outfit, which provides so much target-saturation that I can't get focused down by HA's. That being said, mines are a pain in the ass. On the one hand, I don't have mine-guard so maybe I shouldn't whine, and as well, I guess an engineer having enough mines to kill a single vehicle is a good ratio for this game considering it's 100vs100v100 most of the time, meaning that if you die, two more vehicles will just take your place anyway.

BUT, mines still feel really cheap. I didn't like them in Battlefield 3 either, but at least in battlefield the mines were CLEARLY visible on the ground once you knew what to look for. In Planetside that isn't really the case. They don't stand out on the ground at all. It's kind of a bummer to be driving along doe-dee-doe and then suddenly, bam.

I think a decent compromise for mines would be, hitting one engineer's worth of mines will do like 95% damage to a lightning, which will outright destroy the vehicle if it's already taken a little bit of damage, or will leave it with a tiny tiny sliver of health if it had full health upon hitting it.

Engineers can get their full usual exp for destroying the vehicle, and half that if the mines doesn't kill it, so at least they're getting exp either way.

double edit- Ooorrrr we can just buy mine-guard >__>

moosepoop · 2013-04-07, 04:05 PM

bring in crewed tanks, increase tank hp by 30%.

Zulthus · 2013-04-07, 04:05 PM

Vehicles in general aren't fun to use because they gave them all 1/8th of the health they had in PS1. Is an infantry destroying a MBT by himself in 2 shots realistic? You bet your ass. Is it fun? Not in the slightest. Same thing with ESF's, they go down in no time flat. The only vehicle that I feel has enough hit points is the Sunderer.

I give you this video;

Armor fights were fun because tanks weren't made out of paper mache. You actually had a chance to get a battle going.