New Map - New Test Server

[Noivad]

I have been on the test server, I like the changes to the bases. Disclaimer: I do NOT have anything against Large Outfits. I do NOT like the funneling that the smaller hex accomplish to move the zerg. I do NOT like the removal of bases that were fun for small Outfits to play on.

In PS1 the Zerg was Infantry, with less vehicles. They went from yellow line attached base to another. There was no adjacency Rules as there is in PS2. You could go anywhere you wanted to even with the lattice lines that connected bases. Yes you could back hack and take out vital bonuses to an empire faction by doing so. There is no such Meta in this game.

In PS2 the zerg is equal to large Outfits moving from point A to point B and Non Outfit members following them through narrow avenues of approach to bases. Terrain in PS2, except on a few planets / continents had wide avenues of approach. It is Ironic that that people wanted more places to attack in the PS1 neutral zones where no fighting took place, and in PS2 originally, the Maps had them, and now there is a movement by SOE to make more none fightable areas again.

While the Large Outfits may not be Zerg Outfits in their tactics. They are on the avenues of approach from point A to Point B because that is the only way for them to go. In PS1 you would see Outfits forming convoys and moving out organized. Now all you see is a cluster fuck of vehicles all rushing from point to point.

The new Hex system fixes nothing. It is the same avenues of approach that existed prior to the small hexes. There is NO CHANGE in the map in that regard. Just pretty little colors for the dim witted to follow. The bases have always been connected to the roadways.

To add injury to insult, Some very fun, small bases, that were usually Infantry only with very little Armor or Air to spoil it are being removed from the MAP. They are making the Map less complicated for the dumb asses who don't know how to read one, and the tactically NOT proficient. If you look at the Map Grid on their Map, anyone who has ever read one knows that SOE knows nothing about reading one properly (left and up).

These changes are to make fights bigger, so that even more people can lag in them. To show us the way to the battle because we cannot read a map. To cut down the number of contested areas to fight and make them more Amerish and Esamir like.

All those greyed out areas when you look at the new map are no longer fightable. They no longer have meaning. Only the mini hex areas do. SOE is taking away your choice of free movement to attack small fight areas. The Idea of conquest is moving towards base capping instead of area conquest. Any idiot can take their large Outfit and say. Hey just follow the yellow brick road. The battle is at the end of it. Look at the other end of the rainbow for you colorful fighting. What tactics are involved in that. Who needs indicators on a map to tell you where to go to a fight.

So if you are an Outfit that prides itself in its ability to find the fight, kill, and conquer, you are no longer needed except for maybe transportation to the next battle on that small hex line. Join the Zerg. Be happy, No thank you.

[EVILPIG]

Everyone got excited about the lattice. I personally expressed concern about this right off. Why limit us? Why force players into each other? Seems it really hurts smaller units.

[maradine]

My favorite fights have been off-axis to an advance. I reserve judgement until I have time to fuck with it, but I don't like what I'm hearing so far.

[moosepoop]

you guys begged on your knees for lattice. now its back, you dont want it anymore.

[maradine]

Who are "you guys"? Is there a list? Pretty sure I wasn't on it.

[EVILPIG]

Originally Posted by moosepoop

you guys begged on your knees for lattice. now its back, you dont want it anymore.

No no, I never wanted Lattice. For this very reason.

[Rumblepit]

ll you need to try and think outside the box a little. im seeing many objectives that would be great ops for smaller outfits now.

1) setting up AA or AV squads on the outside of the main zerg,and or moving in to take out the AA or AV squads they have in place.

2)having a ops squad move in to take a satellite base behind enemy lines,or having them hack terms and pull armor to destroy the enemy supply lines and or flank the armor they have at the front line.

3)if the enemy is close to a cap point at another base send a few small squads to put a hack on the base behind the enemy so they have to fall back and re secure.




i could go on and on, im seeing more ways that smaller outfits can be effective with the lattice system rather than the hex system.


with the hex system and smaller outfits its hard to find a fight sometimes, and even when you do find one they can be ended in a moments notice.lets use evil pig and the 666 as a example, he sees we have a base on lock down he sends 3 platoons to take out our 2 squads, or he just avoids us all together and goes around, leaving us standing around with our thumbs up our butts.
if all the outfits were as large as the 666 i think the hex system would be ideal,becuase everyone would have the numbers/ resources to deal with the vast amount of battle flow options the hex system allows .but not every outfit is a big as the 666 nore do they want to be.

the lattice system will cater to the needs of both small and large outfits and will put a end to back capping and avoiding defended bases.

this is feed back is from someone in a small outfit, im sure evil pig thinks hes knows what would be good for smaller outfits but until he has ran one in ps2 i dont think he has the right to speak for any of us.

[Snydenthur]

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

the lattice system will cater to the needs of both small and large outfits and will put a end to back capping and avoiding defended bases.

Isn't that the same thing as saying there are much fewer tactics? Instead of just blindly attacking the base that has platoons of enemies, with hex system you can try to break the platoons up by taking the hexes around that base. In lattice system, you just have to attack that place to advance.

While this does help with always finding a big battle, it doesn't mean that the game instantly gets a lot better. I think they should first just make the crown change with the hex system and see how much of effect that has to the game. When it's not the place to go for a lot of players, there would be much better fights around the map.

[Rumblepit]

Originally Posted by Snydenthur

Isn't that the same thing as saying there are much fewer tactics? Instead of just blindly attacking the base that has platoons of enemies, with hex system you can try to break the platoons up by taking the hexes around that base. In lattice system, you just have to attack that place to advance.

While this does help with always finding a big battle, it doesn't mean that the game instantly gets a lot better. I think they should first just make the crown change with the hex system and see how much of effect that has to the game. When it's not the place to go for a lot of players, there would be much better fights around the map.

just wondering what server you pay on, because on connery its steam roll after steam roll, back cap, after, back cap, and avoid the bases that are defended at all cost all day every day.

a attacking faction should never, and i mean EVER be able to bypass a major base because its defended. this is very common, outfits and zergs will be more than happy to go around and head straight for the warp gate.

you talk about tactics? right now its a numbers game, control the numbers control the map,it favors big outfits and high pops ,thats all. with the lattice your going to have to attack the enemy to progress.
no more back capping ,no more zerg rushing, bases will be defended ,dont expect to be ghost capping anything at any time.

sounds like you may need to implement more tactics with the lattice,but thats just me. im looking to play the game the way it was meant to be played.

[Silent Thunder]

Didn't Planetside 1 have almost exactly the same problems before they added the lattice into it? I didn't play untill well after the lattice was added, but I heard some horror stories about the before lattice times.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Noivad

I have been on the test server, I like the changes to the bases. Disclaimer: I do NOT have anything against Large Outfits. I do NOT like the funneling that the smaller hex accomplish to move the zerg. I do NOT like the removal of bases that were fun for small Outfits to play on.

Fair enough, but from my perspective misguided.

In PS1 the Zerg was Infantry, with less vehicles. They went from yellow line attached base to another. There was no adjacency Rules as there is in PS2.

In PS1, the zerg consisted of everything and the kitchen sink that the tech would provide. Particularly Reavers and tanks and BFRs - but yes, due to limited cert points and nearest spawn point madness... A lot of infantry footzerg from tower to base.

In PS2 there are shitloads more vehicle pads, naturally, combined with infinite certs and unlimited vehicle access aside from resources, we have less logistical issues with bringing units to the frontline. Unfortunately.

You could go anywhere you wanted to even with the lattice lines that connected bases.

You can do that with PS2 too, in any system because the map is very accessible... >.>

Yes you could back hack and take out vital bonuses to an empire faction by doing so. There is no such Meta in this game.

Two things:

1. You can surround an enemy to stop them from access to tech and resources. Problem: it's rather pointless and convoluted in the current system. The future lattice system will allow that much better, because it contains a lot more choke points. The main issue will be accessing those choke points (no PS1 style gens or spawns).

2. You could not backhack in PS1 if the base wasn't linked or neutralised through a drain. You could blow the gen there. Eventually we may need a NTU system.

In PS2 the zerg is equal to large Outfits moving from point A to point B and Non Outfit members following them through narrow avenues of approach to bases. Terrain in PS2, except on a few planets / continents had wide avenues of approach. It is Ironic that that people wanted more places to attack in the PS1 neutral zones where no fighting took place, and in PS2 originally, the Maps had them, and now there is a movement by SOE to make more none fightable areas again.

1. People wanted some links - as in, only few bases extra to have better stepping stones on certain continents. The terrain in between would automatically spark conflicts. Examples would be Ishunder: Kusag - Enkidu and Kusag - Zaqar, Amerish: Qumu - Cetan and Cyssor: Aja/Wele - Chuku and Leza / Tore - Orisha.

Those could have used more accessible corridors of attack to break open the frequently occuring stalemates on those continents.

Another issue was the lattice restriction implemented with capitals. In some cases, only ONE viable route out of two around a capital was left available. That doesn't mean we needed the 20 routes we had in the hex system. Population got dispersed so much, we'll not be looking at zergs everywhere, even with the new lattice system. Main zergs will focus on single routes. There'll be more clear opportunities for small outfits to bypass them.

In addition, small outfits will get support faster as their own empire will be less dispersed, which means they only need to hold out a shorter amount of time. Now that they know where the enemy will head next, they can prepare the grounds in advance.


Note however, that the proximity of bases in contrast to PS1, provides less preparation time. Note also that we have less tools available to prepare.

And yes, the bases aren't yet defensible enough IMO (too much terrain, not enough catwalks behind small walls in particular, quite open design still), but it's slowly moving in the right direction.

Note also that the outposts that have been removed open up terrain to move through to bypass and flank enemy zergs and hit them in the side, without facing aircraft or other units ghosting that area.

While the Large Outfits may not be Zerg Outfits in their tactics. They are on the avenues of approach from point A to Point B because that is the only way for them to go. In PS1 you would see Outfits forming convoys and moving out organized. Now all you see is a cluster fuck of vehicles all rushing from point to point.

The new Hex system fixes nothing. It is the same avenues of approach that existed prior to the small hexes. There is NO CHANGE in the map in that regard. Just pretty little colors for the dim witted to follow. The bases have always been connected to the roadways.

There are some changes. You might want to notice that some routes are close to one another, but this time they can't be zerged and taken over because they lack links. That means you can use those bases as vantage points for retaliation strikes.

To add injury to insult, Some very fun, small bases, that were usually Infantry only with very little Armor or Air to spoil it are being removed from the MAP. They are making the Map less complicated for the dumb asses who don't know how to read one, and the tactically NOT proficient. If you look at the Map Grid on their Map, anyone who has ever read one knows that SOE knows nothing about reading one properly (left and up).

The design of those bases wasn't very good and didn't prevent camping at all, in fact, if vehicles did show up, they'd be very hard to get out of, especially because of the lack of defenders spawning in the area. Hell, the sole reason those saw little vehicle action was their distance to regular routes and vehicle pads. Those bases didn't contribute to the flow of the battles elsewhere.

They could still see if there's some new purposes to find for those bases, but they never were important to the battleflow and they hardly were more than ghosted. Ghosting non-relevant bases is not a good fun btw. Even the more relevant bases are ghosted now because of the sheer amount of territory that has to be covered by defenders and attackers.

For instance, I've counted over 32 optional areas to hold or attack at any one time. That just spreads players too thin. Of course there should be more lattice options than in PS1 and that's what we'll be getting. But we need less than we've had in PS2 up to now. The strategic impact of you taking a territory will become much greater too in the new system.

Now imagine that an NTU or gen system is added somewhere down the line.


As for SOE and mapreading... Well... Can't argue with that!

These changes are to make fights bigger, so that even more people can lag in them. To show us the way to the battle because we cannot read a map. To cut down the number of contested areas to fight and make them more Amerish and Esamir like.

Which is actually a good thing, because as a small outfit, we've achieved a lot more on those continents than Indar. Why? Because we wern't ignored and outflanked by the zerg so fast that holding the point we were holding became irrelevant. They can't completely ignore any forward hold anymore in the new system. You will be able to stall them much better in the future.

We were also much better able to predict the zergs moves, so we - in groups of 3-12 players playing at a time, would mine roads they would be using, opposed to being faced with 4-6 options that enemy platoon could be heading for at the same time.

All those greyed out areas when you look at the new map are no longer fightable. They no longer have meaning. Only the mini hex areas do. SOE is taking away your choice of free movement to attack small fight areas.

...Wow, talk about narrowminded tactician. Did you only walk accross the lattice lines in PS1? Seriously?


Are you one of those people that would use the Tore - Leza bridge or the Nzame - Bomazi bridge... instead of realising you could use amphibious units to make a flanking move by avoiding the obvious straightforward route?


Just because there's some pretty lines on the map, doesn't mean you have to follow that exact route to get to your objective! Come on! Use your imagination!

The Idea of conquest is moving towards base capping instead of area conquest. Any idiot can take their large Outfit and say. Hey just follow the yellow brick road. The battle is at the end of it. Look at the other end of the rainbow for you colorful fighting. What tactics are involved in that. Who needs indicators on a map to tell you where to go to a fight.

How's this different with setting a waypoint if there are more links? Don't kid yourself, we had that exact same thing up to now. In fact, we will just have less options now and they're more clearly denoted on the map. Seriously, this isn't even a complaint worthy of addressing, because that's not going to change, ever. Regardless of map system.

So if you are an Outfit that prides itself in its ability to find the fight, kill, and conquer, you are no longer needed except for maybe transportation to the next battle on that small hex line. Join the Zerg. Be happy, No thank you.

In all honesty I think you're being an extreme overreacting dramaqueen right now.

Zergs will have a harder time because they'll be faced with other zergs. That leaves small outfits like us open to find and hit their soft spots and hit behind their lines, because they won't overwhelm us everywhere at once while bypassing our own zerg.

It'll give us precious time we haven't had yet.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Silent Thunder

Didn't Planetside 1 have almost exactly the same problems before they added the lattice into it? I didn't play untill well after the lattice was added, but I heard some horror stories about the before lattice times.

PS1 at first had the same issue that PS2 had in Beta: you could capture anything at any time and no fronts would form. That would mean that resecure teams never got any rest and were extremely exhausted and stressed after an evening of playing till they just went apathic and gave up.


Certain people (won't call names) claimed the hex adjecency system would be horrid for the game because it would limit our options more than now. What they don't seem to realise is the sheer amount of bases. In PS1, we had the same sized continents and just far less bases. Some areas were controlled by towers that could be ignored, or used by few players to create a bottleneck due to the amount of CE we had at our disposal. Especially with the sheer amount of options the enemy can attack. Plus that amount of CE isn't at our disposal here. Hence we need far tighter bottlenecks to achieve the same thing of stalling an enemy.

After all, if we have 6 people, we can't defend say all 3 linked outposts and territories at once from 12 enemies. Frequently this is what made us lose so far: we lose everything we don't defend at the time due to lack of manpower. In the new system, we can fall back from base to base, continuously stalling enemy progress and wearing them down.




Of course, base layouts must negate High Explosive spam first and give us the option to wear down enemies during their approach towards the base.

Bury control consoles deeper into bases (behind lines of defense, thus adding more logistics in reaching those) and add instant resecures to that and small outfits and Gal Drop outfits would be massively increased in effectiveness.

[Hamma]

I've never fought against the lattice but I don't think it's all it's cracked up to be. There's many bigger fish they could fry and get better results.

[Snydenthur]

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

you talk about tactics? right now its a numbers game, control the numbers control the map,it favors big outfits and high pops ,thats all. with the lattice your going to have to attack the enemy to progress.
no more back capping ,no more zerg rushing, bases will be defended ,dont expect to be ghost capping anything at any time.

Numbers aren't as important now than they will be on lattice.

Yeah, back capping isn't very possible, since you would have to go around a different line to do that. Zerg rushing isn't going anywhere and ghost capping will be possible and I don't see random players stopping it either. They are doing it now, they will on lattice. Lattice doesn't mean that bases will be defended. Defenders can just go away if they don't feel like fighting. "Let them take this line, let's find our zerg!" just like now.

I'm not saying that lattice will suck, since it might be good too, but I have my doubts. All I know now is that it won't be as good to the game as some people are waiting.

[Figment]

Numbers on the lattice more important?

Consider this: if the bases are well designed, Thermopilae everywhere.

If they are not, outcome of Thermopylae, very soon after. If you can prevent getting flanked and surrounded and can keep an enemy at distance, you will render their numbers far less useful.

This is why the previous situation was so annoying: you hit a speedbump? Ignore it, go around it. Then quickly crush it. But you are a fool if you think that was better for small teams, zergs can easily do the same more efficiently. Zergs can't take all rush lanes, certain paths will suck in troops.