Default arsenal should contain a shotgun/SMG

[Rolfski]

For two reasons:

1. No matter the changes, this game is still Shotgunside 2, especially in towers.
2. The SMG has given the infiltrator a totally new role, making it one of the best, if not the best, CQB class now.

This puts new players or players not willing to spend SC or the very high amount of 1000 certs on these guns at an unfair disadvantage, which should be compensated with the default arsenal.

This is especially the case for the SMG as it is pretty much the only option to go with the infiltrator if you want to "infiltrate" up close.
Shotguns take a bit more skill to be a viable solution. Still, I'm a strong opponent of insta-kill weapons, no matter their disadvantages and the skill it takes. The (pump-action) shotguns got down-voted on the road map for a reason. SOE not listening to the community and spending so much time on releasing a complete arsenal of them was one of the worst design decisions so far imo. However, now the reality is there and we've got to live with them, it's only fair to give default classes access to them as well.

Proposed solution:

• Make one of the SMG's and shotguns available as default.
• Refund certs/SC people have spend on acquiring these particular guns.

[AThreatToYou]

• Introduce a new NS SMG and offer it at a reduced cert cost (100-250)
• Introduce a new NS Shotgun and offer it at a reduced cert cost
  • or
    
  • Introduce NS Punisher and offer it at a reduced cert cost (100)(or free) with cheaper attachments (including shotgun attachment)

Problem pretty much solved, no difficult stomaching of revenue loss (refunds).
I do however think that new players should have access to these weapon types.
If we're going with empire-specific weaponry, differentiate them:
- TR receive SMG (oh wait, repeater?)
- NC receive shotgun (oh wait, NC MAX?)
- VS receive a weapon that can switch fire modes between long and short/SMG and shotty (with tradeoffs)(do not have)(charge up mode being the short-range entirely possible for new beamer)

[phungus]

Shotguns are so stupid in their current implementation. Shotguns and MAXes are all there is in infantry fighting now, so glad I can use an ESF and ignore the cooky cutter shotgun loadout that defines PS2 infantry play. I can't wait to hear the MLG recaps: the comments about how everyone needs to use shotguns and MAX suits will be priceless.

Serious question? How can you guys play infantry for any amount of time? Do you all just run around with OP shotguns? I can do it for maybe 10 minutes before reaching my breaking point, having half my enemies get a weapon that can instagib me at medium and closer ranges without needing to be aimed is just asinine.

This game has one of the worst weapon balances in infantry I have ever seen. It's just pump action and auto shotties and no other viable weapons... even doom2 was better. The only reason to play is for the ESF.

[Snydenthur]

As long as they give pump-actions. I don't want to see a lot of semi auto shotguns running around, that would be hard. Pump actions for more people just makes the game a lot easier.

@phungus

I don't have any problems. I love being infantry. Pump actions are very overrated and over exaggerated weapons. People are just too stuck on the chance to ohk, but the truth is, that doesn't happen very often. I don't have any problems with handling them with carbine. I die to them usually 0-5 times out of 100. And I do fight indoors and at biolabs very often.

Semi auto and auto shotguns are on the borderline of being op though. They are not, but very close.

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

• Introduce a new NS SMG and offer it at a reduced cert cost (100-250)
• Introduce a new NS Shotgun and offer it at a reduced cert cost
  • or
    
  • Introduce NS Punisher and offer it at a reduced cert cost (100)(or free) with cheaper attachments (including shotgun attachment)

Problem pretty much solved, no difficult stomaching of revenue loss (refunds).
I do however think that new players should have access to these weapon types.
If we're going with empire-specific weaponry, differentiate them:
- TR receive SMG (oh wait, repeater?)
- NC receive shotgun (oh wait, NC MAX?)
- VS receive a weapon that can switch fire modes between long and short/SMG and shotty (with tradeoffs)(do not have)(charge up mode being the short-range entirely possible for new beamer)

I've thought of the solutions you're proposing here but came to the conclusion that these weapons should really be free and part of the default arsenal. Therefore giving away a current weapon is probably the least hassle for SOE to execute.

Second best solution would be to make the NS variants of these weapons part of the standard arsenal. People who bought SMG's/shotguns because free versions where not available back then would still be complaining though and demand a refund. So that's why I think my solution will prevent customer dissatisfaction.

[Galron]

No. There are too many in game as it is.

[AThreatToYou]

Originally Posted by phungus

Shotguns are so stupid in their current implementation. Shotguns and MAXes are all there is in infantry fighting now, so glad I can use an ESF and ignore the cooky cutter shotgun loadout that defines PS2 infantry play. I can't wait to hear the MLG recaps: the comments about how everyone needs to use shotguns and MAX suits will be priceless.

Serious question? How can you guys play infantry for any amount of time? Do you all just run around with OP shotguns? I can do it for maybe 10 minutes before reaching my breaking point, having half my enemies get a weapon that can instagib me at medium and closer ranges without needing to be aimed is just asinine.

This game has one of the worst weapon balances in infantry I have ever seen. It's just pump action and auto shotties and no other viable weapons... even doom2 was better. The only reason to play is for the ESF.

Shotguns and MAX suits are not all there is to infantry combat right now, wtf are you smoking? I may own a sweeper but I hardly ever use it. Less than once a day.

Even inside a biolab, there's more to use than shotguns & MAX units...

[Falcon_br]

Already create a topic about the matter, as I said, there is no point of having 6 shotguns, all costing 700 sc / 1.000 certs:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=54755

Also, we got 2 smgs, and one of them is useless for the TR, with more 2 on the game they can scale the prices of it.

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by Galron

No. There are too many in game as it is.

Completely agree. They're in the wrong hands though, paying people only. Which is why I created this topic.

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by Falcon_br

Also, we got 2 smgs, and one of them is useless for the TR, with more 2 on the game they can scale the prices of it.

One of them is useless for each faction. The one that came out first. So got burned on that one. The Armistice, Eridani and Cyclone are all useless to compared to their extended mag counter parts which are the Hailstorm, Sirius and Blitz.

[Lonehunter]

It is a good point though. With the addition of SMGs and Shotguns CQC is much different then release, it would only make sense making one easily available, not free, but like 100 certs :/

[Whiteagle]

Personally I wouldn't mind the Infiltrator getting a Default SMG instead of a Sniper Rifle...

[AThreatToYou]

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

One of them is useless for each faction. The one that came out first. So got burned on that one. The Armistice, Eridani and Cyclone are all useless to compared to their extended mag counter parts which are the Hailstorm, Sirius and Blitz.

No? I tried the Blitz, useless past about ~7m. Cyclone has some range on it.

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Personally I wouldn't mind the Infiltrator getting a Default SMG instead of a Sniper Rifle...

Do that.

[Falcon_br]

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

No? I tried the Blitz, useless past about ~7m. Cyclone has some range on it.



Do that.

Range for a smg is kind of pointless, but there I won't argue because there is some use for an infiltrator, other classes can easily pick better weapons for that.
But the hailstorm got all status better them the first one, only bullet velocity is better, what is pointless for a smg. We asked for a faster reload, the hailstorm still reload faster.

[AThreatToYou]

Originally Posted by Falcon_br

Range for a smg is kind of pointless, but there I won't argue because there is some use for an infiltrator, other classes can easily pick better weapons for that.
But the hailstorm got all status better them the first one, only bullet velocity is better, what is pointless for a smg. We asked for a faster reload, the hailstorm still reload faster.

Well, I don't know exactly about the TR ones, but I have pretty much stopped seeing the non-drum mag TR SMG. The NC SMGs are differentiated by ROF, range, clip size, reload speed and damage per bullet. The Cyclone is honestly a feasible mid-range weapon if a forward grip is applied, seeing as the Cyclone does as much max dmg/shot as the Gauss Rifle (and fires faster, and reloads faster).

(its minimum damage is a lot lower though, plus with soft-point ammo... but hey, then min-range is increased by.. what, 5-10m? worth it)

And for VS, I also see nothing but the Sirius. Sad; the Eridani is not much worse than the pulsar. Screw low bullet velocity; it has no drop anyway. In any case, I'd buff the Eridani and Cyclone's projectile velocity back up to 375.
The Armistice and Hailstorm are weird though. It's obvious that the Armistice is underpowered.