Wrecking a Base

ringring · 2013-05-09, 05:40 AM

I've noticed recently, maybe it's only recently become a thing, that a few people have developed a practise of flying to a enemy base, Amp Stations are good for this, that's well behind the front lines and destroying all the gens, terminals and turrets.

It's easy and cheap XP for them.

Normally I don't mind cheap (**edit apart pumps and smg's on cloakers) but this is impacting on my gameplay.

When I see this I can't help going and repairing everything, it's a compulsion. Help me by putting a stop to this. I want to fight but I must must go and repair, go and repair.

OCD 4EVA!

The answer is of course to reduce the XP gain from destruction. Just make xp gain a 10th of what it is now if not remove it altogether.

I thangkew

Gatekeeper · 2013-05-09, 05:45 AM

Scale all support/capture XP based on the amount of fighting in the surrounding hexes. No deaths? No XP.

Also: don't allow compromise of generators unless you have control of an adjacent territory.

EvilNinjadude · 2013-05-09, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Also: don't allow compromise of generators unless you have control of an adjacent territory.

Heard that was being put in.

Sounds kinda like that Electronic Lattice they had going on in PS1.

ChipMHazard · 2013-05-09, 06:09 AM

We all knew this would happen when we saw they upped the XP for destroying gens.
People just get up early and start farming all the enemy gens. Rather silly design choice if you ask me.

I wouldn't mind gens giving xp depending on enemy activity; as in if there's enemy activity they give full XP if no enemies are present they give nothing but a big *BOOM*. Might have it scale more than that to avoid exploitation (Get one of your friends to log in as an enemy and you're in business again). Something for Alex to ponder about

I don't agree with making gens unattackable unless you have adjacent territory, especially with the new lattice system in mind. There's not a whole lot for smaller outfits to do as it stands right now, no need to take this possibility away from them.

Gatekeeper · 2013-05-09, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

I don't agree with making gens unattackable unless you have adjacent territory, especially with the new lattice system in mind. There's not a whole lot for smaller outfits to do as it stands right now, no need to take this possibility away from them.

Well if you have the scaling XP then it might not be needed as well. Could maybe make the gens take longer to overload though, to give people more of a chance to respond?

ringring · 2013-05-09, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by EvilNinjadude

Heard that was being put in.

Sounds kinda like that Electronic Lattice they had going on in PS1.

And it's a bad idea ..... there are good proper gameplay reasons to knock a base off line that doesn't involve simply going for cheap XP.

You *should* be able to wreck a base. If shouldn't be encouraged with cheap XP is all. But don't remove possible tactical moves out of the equation.

Shogun · 2013-05-09, 07:07 AM

you really have to wonder why the devs have unlearned any lesson from ps1!

we had this problem in ps1 and it has been solved by scaling any base-related xp to enemy presence.

there are "how to grind certs" videos on youtube that suggest to go behind enemy lines and wreck anything where no resistance is suspected. that´s why this will happen even more often.

the xp distribution from ps1 was perfect and almost not exploitable. especially the support xp system was superior to ps2 in any possible way. and i see people boosting each other exploiting the heck out of it all the time.

so the dev who is responsible for xp distribution on ps2, PLEASE do your homework already, take a look at ps1 and fix the situation!

but scaling xp to enemy presence has to be timeshifted. because getting no xp for capturing a base just because the defenders have left sucks. and the defenders tend to leave very often.

Gatekeeper · 2013-05-09, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Shogun

you really have to wonder why the devs have unlearned any lesson from ps1!

we had this problem in ps1 and it has been solved by scaling any base-related xp to enemy presence.

there are "how to grind certs" videos on youtube that suggest to go behind enemy lines and wreck anything where no resistance is suspected. that´s why this will happen even more often.

the xp distribution from ps1 was perfect and almost not exploitable. especially the support xp system was superior to ps2 in any possible way. and i see people boosting each other exploiting the heck out of it all the time.

so the dev who is responsible for xp distribution on ps2, PLEASE do your homework already, take a look at ps1 and fix the situation!

but scaling xp to enemy presence has to be timeshifted. because getting no xp for capturing a base just because the defenders have left sucks. and the defenders tend to leave very often.

Absolutely!

Also capture XP should scale based on how much of the fight you were actually there for - both to prevent people turning up at the last second and getting full XP, and also so that people who leave early (or crash just as the base caps*) still get their fair share rather than nothing.

* This happened to me yesterday

Shogun · 2013-05-09, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Absolutely!

Also capture XP should scale based on how much of the fight you were actually there for - both to prevent people turning up at the last second and getting full XP, and also so that people who leave early (or crash just as the base caps*) still get their fair share rather than nothing.

* This happened to me yesterday

* this sucks big time! i keep crashing to desktop all the time, and i almost missed the xp for an alert yesterday. 3 minutes to alert-end and the game crashed everytime i tried to reenter it.

for those who don´t know about the ps1 mechanics. support xp worked like this:
when you healed or repaired somebody, you got almost no direct xp for it at all. instead the healed person was flagged as connected to your xp.
when he scored xp by shooting an enemy, you would also get a share of xp. and the first kill started a timer of some minutes. you would get xp for every kill he makes for as long as this timer runs or he stays alive.

the same system applied for hacking and repairing terminals or setting up an ams. everybody who spawned at your ams or took out some equipment got this xp flag and would bring you xp.
this was also used in galaxies for hotdrop-pilots! everybody in the gal was xp flagged when they hotdropped, and the pilot could fly the gal to safety without having to worry about xp, because the guys he dropped would provide xp for him if they were successful.

the only thing that could be abused was the teleporter. ps1 had a teleporter vehicle that could be linked to a portable teleporterpad and the guy who setup the pad or vehicle would flag everybody who used the teleporter. this was often setup at spawnrooms so everybody respawning would use it as a shortcut to vehicleterminal. that was bad because the teleporter opened an easy way into the spawns for the enemy. (teleporters were usable by enemies as well)

and xp in vehicles was also shared between driver and EVERY gunner. only passenger seats didn´t get xp for kills. that´s why teamwork was fun and fair for everybody.

so why was this refined system scrapped and replaced by the very exploitable simple thing we have now?

almalino · 2013-05-09, 08:51 AM

I like to do that with my infiltrator especially when Generator XP is so high right now. I go to some AMP station behind enemy lines, hack turrets , hack generators along the way. Get huge amount of points and also manage to wreck havoc on enemy air and ground from hacked turrets.

Pure fun

Sometimes it helps my team when it comes to AMP station and find all generators already hacked and base defentless.

Galron · 2013-05-09, 08:57 AM

I think this is a symptom for not having more non-combat exp attractive support roles. NTUs and all that jazz. It lets me get some repair ribbons though on the other side of it. I just wish it felt like it was helping my empire more.

Canaris · 2013-05-09, 08:58 AM

I'm surprised they even bothered with upping the XP for gen kills and for the life of me still can't figure out why?

ringring · 2013-05-09, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by almalino

I like to do that with my infiltrator especially when Generator XP is so high right now. I go to some AMP station behind enemy lines, hack turrets , hack generators along the way. Get huge amount of points and also manage to wreck havoc on enemy air and ground from hacked turrets.

Pure fun

Sometimes it helps my team when it comes to AMP station and find all generators already hacked and base defentless.

It's not you. They guys who do this do not hack turrets, they run as engineers and simply deploy AV turrets and take base turrets out.

Also it's nothing to do with 'preparing a base ready for your zerg to take it over', if it was I wouldn't have much objection, the bases that it happens to are far behind the front line.

But yea. It's almost like there has been a deliberate decision to not learn any lessons from the past, hence the large amount of re-working that is going on.

EvilNinjadude · 2013-05-09, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Shogun

why was this refined system scrapped and replaced by the very exploitable simple thing we have now?

This was the best system I could ever have imagined. And I did imagine something like this a while back. I can't believe it was in Planetside 1!

Okay, the reason I've been disliking the way people currently farm gens is because of how the spawning mechanic currently works. I play on Esamir, and whenever I die I get the option to respawn in the nearest location, and several adjacent ones... BUT NOT THE ONES THAT ARE BEING FLIPPED.

"Oh, you see that place that the enemy is capping? Oh, no reason why I should let you spawn there. Instead, why don't you try spawning at this Freyr Outpost over here? Nothing going on, and no vehicle terminal or teleports... should be just perfect for you!"

See what I mean? Now if the Infiltrator pops in, he can take down the SCU in three minutes flat from the time he enters the base. Now nobody can spawn there to fix the facility, why the benefit remains active.

I think it should be the other way around. You've no reason to defend the facility and can't spawn there, awesome right?

What I want from spawning now:
> Spawn at any spawn in the area you died in (plus everything beyond borders within 500m radius), including your beacons and all Sunderers.

> To be able to spawn at one spawn point in all adjacent territories.

> Three or four "Reinforcements needed" spawns, at spawns that are NOT outposts (GOD EFFING DAMNIT!) unless the SCU is down, and at facilities that you hold that are being assaulted. Why? Because if your faction is capping a base, they'll likely not need reinforcements. They wouldn't be capping if they didn't have the upper hand in one way or another.

Whack-a-mole gets harder when you can't spawn in on the moles.

What I want from facilities now
> Better, more meaningful benefits that can be disabled when assaulting the facility.

> That new SCU mechanic SOE is bringing in which stops people from taking over an entire base before flipping a single point.

> Less confusing benefit displays! Some bases in random places get benefits from facilities, but others don't! There should be more benefits to holding more bases, and a benefit that should be felt from the other side of the map, too!

Whiteagle · 2013-05-09, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by ringring

I've noticed recently, maybe it's only recently become a thing, that a few people have developed a practise of flying to a enemy base, Amp Stations are good for this, that's well behind the front lines and destroying all the gens, terminals and turrets.

Dude, sometime you have to destroy your own shit just to keep the enemy from using it on you...

But yeah, blame Ghoest...