Empire Specific AV, Where's the Lancers?

PredatorFour · 2013-05-10, 06:04 AM

So one thing we have noticed in our outfit is that every time we come up against nc, we hear the distinct whistling and blue orbs from their phoenix users. Every time we come up against the lock on republic, we hear the lock ons and the red orbs from their strikers. But where are the lancers ??? On our VS frontlines we see next to zero lancer users and it's a shame.

The Striker is probably the best AV/AA weapon in the game and seems to be quite buggy too. In a scythe it seems impossible to shake off with terrain (possibly goes through terrain?) and sometimes with lag you get locked on then get hit instantly.

The Phoenix seems a niche weapon, probably hard to control but still packs a punch and has it's uses on the frontline.

Then the Lancer, why don't VS use their AV as much as the other two empires ??????????

Rasui · 2013-05-10, 06:25 AM

Because the average player lacks imagination and only looks at the numbers. Same reason people think the Vortex is bad (it isn't).

Gatekeeper · 2013-05-10, 06:29 AM

Yeah, I've noticed exactly the same thing, I almost never see a Lancer used on Cobalt and last night was the first time I've ever seen anyone use a Vortex outside of VR.

I think the problem is that a lot of people, like me, tested them out in VR when they first came out and/or took them out for a 30 min trial, and found they were basically useless. Lock-on rocket launchers are just better.

Maybe they get good with a lot of practice and/or skill, or maybe if you have a coordinated squad using them - but people will never find out, because they seem so underwhelming initially. As with all weapons - they won't really pick up in usage until people see others using them (successfully!).

Rasui · 2013-05-10, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Yeah, I've noticed exactly the same thing, I almost never see a Lancer used on Cobalt and last night was the first time I've ever seen anyone use a Vortex outside of VR.

I think the problem is that a lot of people, like me, tested them out in VR when they first came out and/or took them out for a 30 min trial, and found they were basically useless. Lock-on rocket launchers are just better.

Maybe they get good with a lot of practice and/or skill, or maybe if you have a coordinated squad using them - but people will never find out, because they seem so underwhelming initially. As with all weapons - they won't really pick up in usage until people see others using them (successfully!).

I converted a few people yesterday in a pub-platoon when I was knocking Mossies out of the sky with my Vortex's.

Eggy · 2013-05-10, 07:17 AM

I got hit by plenty of Lancers on Miller last night. My hillbilly harraser style complete with voice comms "yeah haws" was getting peppered by them for hours.

Id also like to add that on paper the striker is "maybe" the best.
In reality its not, and with all the bugs the

In terms of pure AV potential and damage the phoenix definatley comes out on top, espicaly since 99.9% of the time the projectile isnt anywhere near the on screen graphic.

The striker is the best AA due to its lockon, but generaly "some" of the round in a clip just seem to "fizzle" and the 2nd clip is generaly full of blanks.

The lancer is "ok" at AV and "soso" at AA, works great in numbers and has the advantage of massive alpha strike. As far as I know it also has the benfits of zero bugs.

Emperor Newt · 2013-05-10, 07:19 AM

The problem with the Lancer is that in many situations is that you won't be able to get of a fully charged shot and there also is a big chance that you miss. The whole charge-up mechanic is heavily punishing on the user, especially because it requires quiet some training. It can be used very effectively, but only few users will be able to get to that point.
I think you would see more use of them if they would change the charge up mechanic to being more of a "bonus" instead of something you are required to do to unfold the full potential of the weapon. This would of course require some serious rework on how the charge up works, mag size, damage values, range drop off etc.

With the current lancer the risk/reward balance simply isn't there to see John "Casual" Doe use it.

Gimpylung · 2013-05-10, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by Emperor Newt

With the current lancer the risk/reward balance simply isn't there to see John "Casual" Doe use it.

Lol, Quoting you twice in one day, I totally agree with you here.

Too much drama to fire the damn thing versus the likelihood of any reward.

Reduce the charge up time and give it a long range sight, reduce the damage for any percieved OPness after those changes.

Canaris · 2013-05-10, 07:49 AM

I keep encountering them on Miller so some VS must be using them

Gatekeeper · 2013-05-10, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Gimpylung

Reduce the charge up time and give it a long range sight, reduce the damage for any percieved OPness after those changes.

Absolutely. It seems crazy to make it a hard-hitting, long-range weapon with a fast projectile - but then give it a crappy short-range scope.

TBH I don't understand why you can't just buy different scopes for AV weapons just like everything else. Would be nice to get scopes for pistols too, while we're at it (not that I think we need them exactly, but it might be fun).

CraazyCanuck · 2013-05-10, 08:30 AM

Scopes on pistols and launchers would be fantastic. Could add one to the AV turret as well while they're plugging away at it.

Newt nailed it. Charging up just isnt worth the risk of getting pot shotted. Your ass is hanging out too long in the wind, just waiting for one of those pesky snipers to sting u. Not to mention air/armor bombardment.

Geld · 2013-05-10, 08:59 AM

The Lancer is in heavy use on Mattherson. I see beams shooting at vehicles all the time.

I see them usually a couple at a time just firing off rapid shots rather than charged unless they're very far out.

Assist · 2013-05-10, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Rasui

Because the average player lacks imagination and only looks at the numbers. Same reason people think the Vortex is bad (it isn't).

Indeed.
Vortex is ridiculous, IMO. Too good for AV. Lancer is very good as well, it's really needs another AV weapon of some sort with it to make it really powerful. But the Vortex... anyone complaining about this gun should be rerolling TR, the tears belong on that faction.

Gatekeeper · 2013-05-10, 09:13 AM

I've not seen anyone complain about the Vortex - but I've also not seen it used much. And the stats someone posted in another thread on AV suggested it's the least used and least effective (in terms of kills earned) of the new MAX AV weapons.

Can't comment from personal experience either way, but it seems clear that regardless of whether they're theoretically effective or not, a lot of people aren't that keen on the Lancer or Vortex as they stand right now - or at least not keen enough to spend actual money on them.

CToxin · 2013-05-10, 09:22 AM

I can't go near a major VS battle with a tank because all I hear is the thump thump thump of people rapid firing lancers at me. In one fight I got burst down by lancer fire in less than half a second of the first one landing.

Gatekeeper · 2013-05-10, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by CToxin

I can't go near a major VS battle with a tank because all I hear is the thump thump thump of people rapid firing lancers at me. In one fight I got burst down by lancer fire in less than half a second of the first one landing.

Maybe this is just one of those quirks of different servers then - or perhaps I just don't notice Lancers on Cobalt because I'm not the one they're shooting at.

Would be interesting to see the relative usage statistics for the various AV weapons...