Hybridization of capture system fixes Planetside 2

Livefire · 2013-05-23, 08:55 PM

I have been very excited about the PS1 lattice system getting back into PS2 now being called a resource pipe line. As I played with my outfit several people brought up complaints because they feel their style of play has been removed as they always play stealth and like doing special forces type stuff. Now with the lattice (resource pipe line) it's just big fights because every one can find where they should be fighting and what they should be fighting for, however that is not what every one wants to do. A lot of people prefer the smaller squad on squad fights attacking some random towers and not having the fps problems that many suffer from in big fights. So that's when I started thinking about PS1 and all the stealth stuff we did all the time even with a lattice system that was far more restrictive then PS2's, that's when I had an "epiphany". It was the resource system in Planetside 1 and the fact you could even make bases go neutral by draining their resource tanks Nanite technology Units"NTU". We had these capture mechanics that were more dynamic at the same time as having a much more restrictive lattice. So then I propose we merge the hex system from PS2 with the new resource pipe line flow system "lattice system" from PS1. This would also allow several changes to PS2 that the Devs have been struggling with like the resource system as a whole.

Changes and modifications to the resource system.
1. We change the resources back to NTU that are created by the alien warp gates which is still current PS2 canon. They are then pumped to all the bases/towers/outposts that we dropped from space through a network of pipe lines "lattice", that connects the bases/towers/outposts to the warp gates NTUs allowing them to amazing spawn the vehicles and weapons and even US.

2. Resources would be infinite as the alien warp gates create them but would only be supplied to the bases/towers/outposts via the pipe line at a certain amount per min just like it does now, the NTU's from the warp gates would fill up an on base/tower/outpost storage tank that each base/tower/outpost would have. Larger bases/towers/outposts that can spawn tanks and aircraft would have a larger NTU tank, smaller bases/towers/outposts that could not would have a smaller one. Land based purpose specific resources that are currently in game would be removed as they make little sense now and would have no real purpose as NTU's can just create everything.

3. Everything would cost NTU, even just spawning would cost the bases/towers/outposts there NTU's, Under normal circumstances You would never have to worry about not having enough NTU at your personal use to spawn or pull the equipment that you do not have to pay for in resources now but they would eventually drain the bases/towers/outposts of there fuel "NTU" by spawning and pulling them. But spawning vehicles and maxes and grenades and such would cost you out of your personal resource bank that is stored for you at every base just like now as it costs a lot more NTU's so the empires manage this by spreading this high allowed amount evenly among all soldiers. The base under normal circumstances as long as it is connected to the warpgate pipe line would never run completely out of NTU's but the personal NTU limits for players pulling tanks and vehicles and maxes would top out and the player would have to wait to have enough resources in his/her personal bank to pull again. This would allow us to get ride of cool down timers on everything as they are redundant as resources would govern all as it should.

4. (First possible mechanic) You can drain a base completely empty by 2 ways. 1. drive/fly a new fuel tanker vehicle that would be added to the game that would be much like a sunderer and or galaxy up to the NTU tank at the bases/towers/outposts and drain it dry by filling the vehicle. 2. During a massive siege fight, vehicles spawns and equipment being created would pull 'NTU' resources faster then the warp gate pipe line could supply it eventually draining the base and making all the spawn systems go offline this includes, spawns, equipment terminals, vehicle terminals, another words the SCU would go down as it runs off of NTUs. This could be avoided by the defending team managing to drive or fly in a fully fueled NTU transport that they filled up at a local base by pulling NTU's from that base or the massive warpgate NTU tanks that would be sitting in the warpgates in place of some other unused warpgate structures currently there now. They could then use this vehicle to refuel the base/tower/outpost so its spawn systems do not go offline, this would also reward a great deal of XP to who ever manages to save the whole base/tower/outpost this way as it almost for sure will fall into enemy hands if all of its spawn systems go offline.

5. (First possible mechanic including the neutral mechanic) If a base/tower/outpost manages to be drained of all fuel "NTU" it goes neutral which then allows any empire to capture it regardless of there connection to the base via hex connection, while the base is neutral all systems would be offline (ownership computer "CC" and SCU) as there is no fuel and empire ownership. You can drain a base completely empty by 2 ways. 1. drive or fly a new fuel tanker vehicle that would be added to the game that would be much like a sunderer or galaxy up to the NTU tank at the bases and drain it dry by filling the vehicle which then in turn would turn the base neutral. 2. During a massive siege fight, vehicles spawns and equipment being created would pull 'NTU' resources faster then the warp gate pipe line could supply it eventually draining the base/tower and making it go neutral. This could be avoided by the defending team managing to drive or fly in a fully fueled NTU transport that they filled up at a local base by pulling NTU from that base/tower/outpost or the massive warpgate tanks that would be sitting in the warpgates with the other warpgate structures. They could then use this vehicle to refuel the base so it does not go neutral, this would also reward a great deal of XP to who every manages to save the whole base/tower/outpost this way from turning neutral and then falling into enemy hands.

Changes to capture mechanics
1.The bases are all run by massive computers in each base that recognize what empire it works for, when a base is owned by X empire that computer also broadcasts a signal telling all other bases that are bordering it on the hex system to join that empire. But before that computer can be tricked into doing that the base computer must be hacked and a program or virus uploaded to make the base reboot its self and be defended as this happens over a certain amount of time. In doing so resets the base computer which then makes it join that empire that hacked it and loaded a software program or virus to make the computer believe that it belonged to that empire before it rebooted and there for is just rejoining the empire it belongs to.

2. All bases bordering each others hex would be hackable through the wireless broadcast system each base has and still is on Amerish and Esamir. But if they are not connected to that empires pipe line or supplied by an NTU supply vehicle ever so often the base will not have NTU's "resources" and would not be able to spawn anything that cost the player resources and if it ran completely out (if the neutral mechanic is added) would go neutral or if not would simply have all of its spawn systems disabled until it was refueled. This would make small fights at such bases while the big fights would follow the resource pipe line where every one could pull tank columns and aircraft. The small fighters, stealth and SF guys would have there fights and the zerg would have its fights.

We would get the best of both worlds with a high tech fight management system from the lessons learned from PS1 with the size and flexibility enjoyed in PS2, some more meta game with the ANT/NTU mini game and better fluff that makes perfect sense all at the same time. This would even flow into the eventual continental capture mechanics. As the point to capture whole continents would be to capture all 3 of there warp gates, as an empire would capture more warp gates there total NTU resource production would increase making all soldiers of that empire able to pull more often. As there total NTU production would go up with multiple warp gates under that empires control each soldiers resources allowed per minute would increase as well.

Livefire · 2013-05-23, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Obstruction

stopped reading

Changed it just for complete noobs like you

Obstruction · 2013-05-23, 09:23 PM

i was just kindof being a dick.

i had actually read it, but i think it widely misses the point of the game and would alienate many players for the sake of some small group of strategy/rts gamers, and people who like to make rules by which they can justify bossing others around, and making it into a job, with job related stress and performance anxiety.

deeper analysis than that would require point by point arguments about how people abuse the game mechanics we already have, and how the proposed mechanics present more potential for abuse. in addition to this, it seems to present even more obstacles to player competence in a game fraught with many such obstacles (many rooted in the tenacious attempt to maintain cannon, or at the very least retain some concepts from the first game.)

it is my steadfast opinion that game development in the current era is changed from that of ten years ago in that successful, widely appealing games need to be developed as the game that they are and not developed in the image of some other game, for the sake of that game's playerbase.

doing this is a recipe for stagnation if not disaster, and i so far greatly respect (almost all of) the developers decisions, and (every minute of) their hard work.

also your formatting is shit and almost unbearable to look at. thus, the obvious troll.

i stand rebuked, and withdraw my complaint, having hopefully contributed to the discussion.

Livefire · 2013-05-23, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Obstruction

coolest thing about planetside 1 is you never had to hear people bitch that it isn't like planetside 1.

If you read my post you would see other then that first statement ps1 had very little to do with this post.

Whiteagle · 2013-05-24, 12:53 AM

Actually came up with something like this, but implemented the exact opposite way...
To Quote myself:

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Alright, so here is my idea, bring back NTU as Resources that are stored at individual bases instead of players.
We change the name from Nanite Technology Unit to Nanite Transport Unit, with the explanation being that microscopic bits of Resources are being held by Nanites that take them where they need to go.

This plays into bringing in an old idea of mine, Nanite Pipelines that normally transport these NTUs from various scattered Nanite Extraction Generators to three separate NTU Silo at each Base.
Depending on it's size, each Base has its own Stockpile of Resources from which all vehicle and consumable purchases at that Base are drawn from, as well as powering and repairing any Base Feature (such as Generators, Spawn Deployment jamming antenna I call a Wireless Aerial Jammer or WAJ, Turrets, and Terminals).

Excess Resources are stored at a Faction's Warpgates, the three tines of which each acting as a TRULY GIGANTIC NTU Silo.
This allows Warpgates a VERY large, but still potentially exhaustible stock of Resources
The Resource system itself is revamped to resemble its Beta incarnation, with Alloys, Catalysts, and Polymers responsible for specific purchases across the board instead of one Resource for each type of Purchase.

Now the Pipelines themselves are pretty much a in game representation of the Lattice Network, but the Nanite Extraction Generators (or NEGs) which actually provide a Resource might be located in another part of the Territory then the Base, and would thus there would be a line connecting the two.
Longer stretches of Pipeline will have safety valves that can be temporarily hacked to reverse Resource flow or outright destroyed to stop it, but this also destroys the Lattice link and it will need to be repaired to restore the connection.

Finally we get to the Coup de Grace of this system, the re-introduction of the Advanced Nanite Transport and a newer, slightly less powerful NTU Aircraft I call the Nanite Aerial Transport or NAT.
These new Support Vehicles, while not actually armed, will still prove to be vital to offensive movements thanks to their ability to syphon out NTU from Silos as well as supply it.
The Classic ANT will have three tanks each able to hold a Small Silo's worth of NTU, set-up to try and fill a single tank with one type of NTU until full before filling the others, allowing it to take any combination of three Small Silo's worth of NTU.
The NAT will only have one NTU tank, but as an Aircraft it will be able to ignore difficult terrain.

In addition to reinforcing existing allied supply lines and sabotaging the enemies, these craft might also be able to draw extra residual NTU left in Safety Valves, allowing support drivers to collect extra bonus Resources to stockpile for their Empire.

...So, what do you guys think about this?
I know changing the Resource System from the Personal Level to a Base one does impact SOE's planned source of income, but I would just replace the percentile Resource Gather Bonus from Resource Boost and Membership Bonuses into percentile Discounts on Consumable Resource Purchases.
It's the same general effect, but this might make such perks slightly more powerful in comparison...
...Then again, that will also create more demand for Membership Levels and Temporary Boost packs...

So in short, Resources get moved from a Personal Asset to an Individual Base one stored in Silos, they are then used as the new NTU for auto repairing Base Faculties as well as tapped for any consumables purchase at that Base, Pipelines are normally how they get back to the Warpgates (who's tines are now HUGE Resource Silos), these NTU Pipelines can be sabotaged to mess with that flow, ANT's (And a single NTU Tank Aircraft) are introduced, and are not only able to restock cut off NTU Silos but also DRAIN them as well as gather extra Resources from specific Sabotage Points on the Pipeline.

...Ok, not so short when it's one run-on sentence, but what do you think?

bpostal · 2013-05-24, 01:28 AM

On to the actual topic. The idea of adding a 'nanite pipeline' is a good one, as long as it can be sabotaged (thus giving smaller units a meaningful, but not overbearing impact on a given fight). If you thought people TK'ing AMSs was bad, wait until ANTs are (for the purpose of this conversation) added. People are going to fight their own over the stupid trickle of XP. They shouldn't, but they will.

I can see a lot of rage being generated in the event people start spawning and pulling vehicles only to get blown away seconds later. Wasting valuable nanites.
If I were a vengeful bastard and I saw some fucktard pull a Harasser, drive it out onto some mines in front of the vpad and now I can't pull my AMS I would willingly spend the rest of my play session harassing the absolute piss outta that person. That's not going to foster teamwork or good times, only hate and discontent.

Perhaps though, something along the lines of adjusting the 'flow' of nanites through the lattice dependent on how far from your WG the base is? The further from your WG, the faster the base drains. When it's drained, it goes neutral.
In the end, through whatever means, the ability to drain and neutralize bases to open up new fronts would be a welcome addition in the event that the lattice gets too restrictive.

Falcon_br · 2013-05-24, 03:13 AM

Forget it dude, it is a free to play game, nobody cares about base resources, only with getting certs and personal resources!
With it becomes bases resources, how it is going to be with premium users and resources boosters?
Also, the way it is, with individual resources, the game is already flowing good, yesterday while attacking howling pass and killing several vanguard, the command chat was full of people talking, don't attack until the vanguards stop coming, so they will be resourceless to pull more MBT while we still got lots of its!
So, before any other suggestion to the game, make yourself this question:
How would it is going to be compatible with the actual free to play / subscribers model the game currently relay on to survive?
Holy crap, this sentence would do great on my signature, is there a way to increase it? I already use all the line I could!

Livefire · 2013-05-24, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by Falcon_br

Forget it dude, it is a free to play game, nobody cares about base resources, only with getting certs and personal resources!
With it becomes bases resources, how it is going to be with premium users and resources boosters?
Also, the way it is, with individual resources, the game is already flowing good, yesterday while attacking howling pass and killing several vanguard, the command chat was full of people talking, don't attack until the vanguards stop coming, so they will be resourceless to pull more MBT while we still got lots of its!
So, before any other suggestion to the game, make yourself this question:
How would it is going to be compatible with the actual free to play / subscribers model the game currently relay on to survive?
Holy crap, this sentence would do great on my signature, is there a way to increase it? I already use all the line I could!

The look and feel of resources would be exacty same as they are now, you would have a personal bank of resources just only at a base that had them supplied via transport or connected to your empires pipe line. They would just be a much bigger part of the game and in fact the real reason we are all fighting like its suppose to be

Livefire · 2013-05-24, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by Obstruction

i was just kindof being a dick.

i had actually read it, but i think it widely misses the point of the game and would alienate many players for the sake of some small group of strategy/rts gamers, and people who like to make rules by which they can justify bossing others around, and making it into a job, with job related stress and performance anxiety.

deeper analysis than that would require point by point arguments about how people abuse the game mechanics we already have, and how the proposed mechanics present more potential for abuse. in addition to this, it seems to present even more obstacles to player competence in a game fraught with many such obstacles (many rooted in the tenacious attempt to maintain cannon, or at the very least retain some concepts from the first game.)

it is my steadfast opinion that game development in the current era is changed from that of ten years ago in that successful, widely appealing games need to be developed as the game that they are and not developed in the image of some other game, for the sake of that game's playerbase.

doing this is a recipe for stagnation if not disaster, and i so far greatly respect (almost all of) the developers decisions, and (every minute of) their hard work.

also your formatting is shit and almost unbearable to look at. thus, the obvious troll.

i stand rebuked, and withdraw my complaint, having hopefully contributed to the discussion.

It is really nothing like PS1 as its better then PS1 with some of the cool stuff like the hex in PS2 being kept in game to. The game would all of a sudden make sense and have a lot more meta and strategy added all at the same time. I almost think this is what they intended to do with the giant pipe lines sticking out of the ground all over the maps and turning the lattice from PS1 into a resource pipe line connecting all the bases from the warp gate.