Increase Titan-150 AP velocity

Baneblade · 2013-06-01, 12:27 AM

Despite the recent relative buff to AP weapons when compared to HEAT and HE, the AP cannon is lacking in possibly the most important aspect: Velocity.

Velocity is crucial for MBTs that fight at range (which should be all of them), but with the slow velocity of the current Titan AP cannon, the Vanguard falls short against both enemy MBTs and other long range capable units. The Prowler is a great ranged MBT with the lock down buffs and the Magrider is the long range defensive master. The Vanguard has to potshot or close range to effectively engage other MBTs, which would be fine if the Vanguard wasn't designed to be the sniper MBT from the outset.

I'm not sure if the Prowler or Magrider need an AP velocity buff as I can only really relate to the Vanguard.

Currently the Titan AP round is only 25 m/s faster than the Titan HEAT round. 275 m/s vs 250 m/s (IIRC).

I posit that the AP round should be as fast as 400 m/s, though that may be OP. So it may be best to start at 350 m/s and tweak up or down from there.

Bring AP to the lethal level it should always have been.

AThreatToYou · 2013-06-01, 12:32 AM

I was going to say before you proposed 400 m/s, "at LEAST 400m/s"...

Baneblade · 2013-06-01, 12:33 AM

Hehe, I don't want it to get over 400, since that will just create the opposite problem. Titan AP being the absolute undisputed king of MBT weaponeering.

AThreatToYou · 2013-06-01, 01:51 AM

Since armor-piercing shells rely mostly on the velocity of the shell [by current standards], since velocity = energy, and AP tank guns are a very good example of pure kinetic energy, they fly relatively slow. In fact, they go slower than even an SMG round! Also pistol rounds! That's a tad absurd.

If I had it my way, to the limit, AP tank shells would be flying at 1km/s if not 2km/s.
At that rate, they would not necessarily need to deal any more damage to armor. HEAT shells [are assumed to have things like] shaped charges in them. HE shells are packed with high-explosives. An AP shell is a chunk of aerodynamic metal attached to a massive propellant canister.

The NC might be so bold as to use self-propelled AP shells. If they did that, then the AP shell would actually accelerate as it flew through the air. I think that should be implemented. It would begin at 250 m/s and peak at 1km/s.

Not that I speak exclusively for just the NC's AP cannons here. The Lightning, Prowler, Magrider and Vanguard should all have accelerated AP projectile speed at the very least surpass the speed of SMG fire.

but hey
i support OP
its a start right?

Sunrock · 2013-06-01, 03:14 AM

No the titan AP round does not need to be buffed. The Prowlers P2-120AP has a muzzle velocity of 250m/s. So you already have a higher muzzle velocity. You want your titan to be buffed to a prowler with anchored mode 4 worth 1800 certs and still be able to use your shield on the titan while moving?! Yea right that will be very balanced.

KesTro · 2013-06-01, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

No the titan AP round does not need to be buffed. The Prowlers P2-120AP has a muzzle velocity of 250m/s. So you already have a higher muzzle velocity. You want your titan to be buffed to a prowler with anchored mode 4 worth 1800 certs and still be able to use your shield on the titan while moving?! Yea right that will be very balanced.

On a similar problem to waht you've noted, an NC max has to cert 1000 into extended mags on the scatcannons to beat any other factions max in CQC now. With that out of the way.

I support OP as well, AP on tanks in general need to be stronger.

Sunrock · 2013-06-01, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by KesTro

On a similar problem to waht you've noted, an NC max has to cert 1000 into extended mags on the scatcannons to beat any other factions max in CQC now. With that out of the way.

I support OP as well, AP on tanks in general need to be stronger.

I did not know that NC where unable to work in groups where they use the shield with HA behind shooting rockets. Oh wait they do.

ChipMHazard · 2013-06-01, 05:51 AM

First off, I don't know if this is actually needed at all. But going under the assumption that it is nedded:
I wouldn't mind having the Titan rounds having a higher velocity than the rest. However if you want the velocity to be increased to such an extent then you would have to increase the AP round velocity for everyone else as well, while still having the Titan rounds being the fastest.

Baneblade · 2013-06-01, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Baneblade

I'm not sure if the Prowler or Magrider need an AP velocity buff as I can only really relate to the Vanguard.

Originally Posted by Sunrock

No the titan AP round does not need to be buffed. The Prowlers P2-120AP has a muzzle velocity of 250m/s. So you already have a higher muzzle velocity. You want your titan to be buffed to a prowler with anchored mode 4 worth 1800 certs and still be able to use your shield on the titan while moving?! Yea right that will be very balanced.

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

First off, I don't know if this is actually needed at all. But going under the assumption that it is nedded:
I wouldn't mind having the Titan rounds having a higher velocity than the rest. However if you want the velocity to be increased to such an extent then you would have to increase the AP round velocity for everyone else as well, while still having the Titan rounds being the fastest.

I deliberately didn't get into the other tanks, because my experience with them is limited. So if they need a corresponding AP velocity buff, then they need a corresponding AP velocity buff. If I had to make a suggestion:

Titan 150 AP: 400 m/s
Lightning AP: 375 m/s
Prowler AP: 360 m/s (unless that would be OP with lockdown??)
Magrider AP: 350 m/s (strafing is still very powerful at the ranges increased AP velocities matter)

FaxManiac · 2013-06-01, 09:23 AM

As an avid AP Magrider (and Lightning) user, I can safely say that the AP Vanguard absolutely doesn't need a buff. It can shred through anything at close range and is just as deadly from a distance. It already has more velocity and deals more damage than any other AP tank, while being the most resistant and having a super shield (I dare anyone to say the shield is useless).

If anything, the magrider AP needs a velocity or damage buff to bring it on par, as I seem to remember both the Prowler and the Vanguard had their shell velocity buffed not long ago while the Mag got nothing at all. If you think you have it bad with the Vanguard, go try a Mag.

You also seem to forget how easy it can already be to snipe aircraft out of the sky. Buff the velocity and it'll be even worse for pilots. I don't think anyone wants that right now.

ChipMHazard · 2013-06-01, 09:28 AM

That high default velocity on the Prowler would definently be too high, when also taking anchor into account. Would'nt go beyond beyond 300 and if I was to buff it then I would probably go for around 275. That would give it 440 with max anchor. 300 would be 480 with anchor.
Could always reduce the bonus given by anchored mode and up the default velocity to compensate without going overboard.

Not sure about the Magrider AP, as I don't know what the velocity is on that one atm. Plus the reason why the velocity on the TR+NC AP round was buffed was to counter the Magrider's maneuverability. Would still need to get a moderate buff as to not leave it behind.

Could also just give the Vanguard a smaller buff without changing the rest accordingly.

FaxManiac · 2013-06-01, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

Not sure about the Magrider AP, as I don't know what the velocity is on that one atm. Plus the reason why the velocity on the TR+NC AP round was buffed was to counter the Magrider's maneuverability. Would still need to get a moderate buff as to not leave it behind.

Could also just give the Vanguard a smaller buff without changing the rest accordingly.

But why give it a buff ? The AP Vanguard is currently the best anti-tank, so why would you want to buff it ?

I do feel the stats from ps2calc (www.ps2calc.com/) are up to date, so let's quote them :

Magrider AP :
Damage 1785
Velocity 225 m/s

Prowler AP :
Damage 1200 (per round)
Velocity 250 m/s

Vanguard AP :
Damage 2000
Velocity 275 m/s

If you think these numbers are somehow totally balanced (with the reload speed for example), I'd avise you to use the site to see how an AP Magrider performs versus an AP Vanguard, and vice versa. I don't have much to say about the AP Prowler, I encounter it more rarely and I think it is fine for the most part.

I'm not sure about this at all (I might have to research that) but I think the recent armor resistance buffs have also benefited the Vanguard the most.

ChipMHazard · 2013-06-01, 09:56 AM

I did write in my first post, which I have now highlighted so people aren't confused about my stance

, that I don't really see the need. Just going under the assumption that it is needed, for arguments sake.

And yes the armour buff did benefit the Vanguard the most in the sense that it has the highest amount of armour.

FaxManiac · 2013-06-01, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

I did write in my first post, which I have now highlighted so people aren't confused about my stance, that I don't really see the need. Just going under the assumption that it is needed, for arguments sake.

And yes the armour buff did benefit the Vanguard the most in the sense that it has the highest amount of armour.

Apologies, I didn't read as carefully as I should have. I then feel like my posts should be more aimed at Baneblade.

ringring · 2013-06-01, 10:38 AM

Do we really have an NC saying buff the vanguard, a TR saying buff the prowler and a VS saying buff the magrider?

Maggie and Higby, you're right!