Population issues and suggestions

blashyrk · 2013-06-20, 08:15 AM

Hi, I'm making this pretty much redundant thread (as already everybody is aware of the population issues) not because I want to spam, but rather instead of whining I'd like to give a few suggestions as to how to resolve this issue and to see if others agree with me.

Now, I'm aware that, ultimately, pop imbalance is not anybody's fault directly, not SOE's and not the players' who probably don't even think about it when they're choosing their faction.

But, in my opinion, it is the single most game-breaking factor in the entire game.

There is little that can be done about it, though, but I feel that some sort of balancing might be in order.
For example, 10 mins before writing this post, on Miller the pops were 28% VS, 38%, 34% NC). But there was 50% VS pop on Esamir!
So each of the 3 continents had above 50% population of a single faction.

I can't understand the mentality of players who WANT to be the vast majority, I can't really see it being fun for anyone above the age of 12.

Ok, enough about that, let's skip to the suggestions.
1) In the situations like I described above, where each faction chooses to outnumber everyone else on a particular continent, I really thing that some sort of automated continent pop balance system (like team balance in canonical FPS) is needed. Maintaining at least 2 continents on an even balance, and dump the rest of the majority players on the 3rd continent, that's what they mostly like to do as it is.

2) Impose harsh punishment on the majority pop faction's players while rewarding the underpop faction even more.
For example respawn timers should be dependant of the pop status, if there is 66% of players of faction A on a continent as opposed to factions B and C pop, players of faction A should have DOUBLE the respawn timer duration. I think that also resource costs should be variable according to the pop %.
XP bonuses for the underpop'd should be directly proportional to the other factions' overpopulation, reaching even 100% XP bonus or more.

3) Some sort of server interconnection where you'd get to play with your character on different servers, or an automated system that will choose the server for you based on the servers' pop numbers.

JohnnyRicardo · 2013-06-20, 08:17 AM

.. MIGHTY RAVENDARK! *headbangs*

blashyrk · 2013-06-20, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyRicardo

.. MIGHTY RAVENDARK! *headbangs*

typhaon · 2013-06-20, 08:51 AM

I'm not sure you can go too far with the penalties and bonuses...

What do you do if the total server population just happens to be 300 VS and 100 TR and 100 NC?

Most people aren't going to want to constantly switch factions on a server just to avoid penalties... what they'll do is see the negatives... decide this sucks... and NOT PLAY.

I'm sure that isn't what SOE wants.

I think during off hours the ALERT system is really exacerbating the problem. An ALERT goes off and the majority faction swarms the ALERT continent to help grab the quick 20k XP - while the minority factions can either go get bombed on by 100 Liberators and overwhelming odds... or sit around on mostly vacant continents ghost capping.

A suggestion: not an easy one, but I've wished SOE would make some smaller continents - they could even stick with the same tile sets... like small islands off the coast of Esamir/Indar/Amerish... with lower pop cap totals... so, during off hours, based on server capacity - ALERTS could happen on these and the less populated factions would be able to field more competitive forces.

tuxtard · 2013-06-20, 08:57 AM

I've just registered to support this suggestion, but I feel that you won't do much by posting this here instead of sending it directly to the SOE. I also don't think that they want to enforce even population distribution, hell if they wanted to do so they would do it by now. On the other hand, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't do anything to make the battles feel at least fair. The thing I like the most in your suggestion is the respawn timer tweak. That way if the soldier from the underpopulated faction is lucky enough to score a kill, he will have more time to concentrate on other alive players before the ones he killed return to the battle. Also vehicle cost tweak might help in uneven fights since what overpopulated faction loves the most is to circle the point with dozens of tanks and aircrafts, so destroying few of them does not make any real difference. In that situation underpopulated faction does not want to spawn its own vehicles to try to defend themselves because their vehicles gets destroyed immediately.

blashyrk · 2013-06-20, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by typhaon

I'm not sure you can go too far with the penalties and bonuses...

What do you do if the total server population just happens to be 300 VS and 100 TR and 100 NC?

Most people aren't going to want to constantly switch factions on a server just to avoid penalties... what they'll do is see the negatives... decide this sucks... and NOT PLAY.

I'm sure that isn't what SOE wants.

The double spawn timer duration I described earlier would be imposed per continent, not per server and also not in the situation where there is 300VS/100NC/100TR but 400VS/100NC/100TR.

Also I have no idea why they even allow having characters from different factions on a single server, if players would be limited to having characters from only 1 faction on a single server then there'd be a lot less abuse.

Bocheezu · 2013-06-20, 09:01 AM

Continent locking can fix a lot of population issues, especially in PS2's case since there are so few continents. If Amerish is locked, all those people that would normally be screwing around there would be forced to Esamir (assuming Indar is poplocked). I don't think we'd run into a situation where both continents would be poplocked and people would be stuck with nowhere to go; I haven't seen a server queue since the first couple days the game came out (back before Amerish came out), and I don't think we'd see one now.

Obviously, the global population imbalances become magnified when you do this, but most problems can be avoided if the two lower-pop factions gang up on the highest pop faction. Most servers don't have a high-pop faction that is more than double the other two, which is the doomsday scenario where said high-pop faction can successfully fight the other two at the same time.

blashyrk · 2013-06-20, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Bocheezu

Continent locking can fix a lot of population issues, especially in PS2's case since there are so few continents. If Amerish is locked, all those people that would normally be screwing around there would be forced to Esamir (assuming Indar is poplocked). I don't think we'd run into a situation where both continents would be poplocked and people would be stuck with nowhere to go; I haven't seen a server queue since the first couple days the game came out (back before Amerish came out), and I don't think we'd see one now.

Obviously, the global population imbalances become magnified when you do this, but most problems can be avoided if the two lower-pop factions gang up on the highest pop faction. Most servers don't have a high-pop faction that is more than double the other two, which is the doomsday scenario where said high-pop faction can successfully fight the other two at the same time.

I agree, but continent locking is planned for November and if this keeps going, servers like Miller will be dead until then.
While I support continent locking and agree that it will sort the issue out to some point, I still believe they should at least do SOMETHING in the meantime.

Originally Posted by tuxtard

I've just registered to support this suggestion, but I feel that you won't do much by posting this here instead of sending it directly to the SOE. I also don't think that they want to enforce even population distribution, hell if they wanted to do so they would do it by now. On the other hand, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't do anything to make the battles feel at least fair. The thing I like the most in your suggestion is the respawn timer tweak. That way if the soldier from the underpopulated faction is lucky enough to score a kill, he will have more time to concentrate on other alive players before the ones he killed return to the battle. Also vehicle cost tweak might help in uneven fights since what overpopulated faction loves the most is to circle the point with dozens of tanks and aircrafts, so destroying few of them does not make any real difference. In that situation underpopulated faction does not want to spawn its own vehicles to try to defend themselves because their vehicles gets destroyed immediately.

Exactly.

tuxtard · 2013-06-20, 11:01 AM

I personally won't mind waiting longer to respawn if my faction has more pop, or pay a bit more for vehicles. On the other hand if I face 5 vs 1 situation, like it usually is lately, I would switch to another continent. If I find the same situation on other continents as well, I would probably go offline.

Rahabib · 2013-06-20, 11:54 AM

I have said it before

tie cool down timers to manufacturing (ie. more pop longer it takes to spawn vehicles/supplies). its not too harsh (most of the time it will only take 1-5% longer meaning maybe an extra 30 seconds), but it still gives some balance.

Baneblade · 2013-06-20, 02:18 PM

We already have universal character and outfit names... letting us select servers isn't beyond the pale

TimoWasTaken · 2013-06-20, 03:06 PM

For every 1% a faction is underpopulated compared to the most populous faction, a character that logs to the under pop faction in gets a +10% bonus to xp and resource regeneration for one hour. No maximum.
Then people committed to a faction could play that faction, people with friends on different factions could play with them, and fourth faction players would follow the xp and keep us always in balance.
As long as the bonus is huge and ramps to ridiculous, the factions would always be in balance. No one needs to be limited, no one needs to be forced anywhere, everyone can play how, when and with whom they wish.

Obstruction · 2013-06-20, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by TimoWasTaken

For every 1% a faction is underpopulated compared to the most populous faction, a character that logs to the under pop faction in gets a +10% bonus to xp and resource regeneration for one hour. No maximum.
Then people committed to a faction could play that faction, people with friends on different factions could play with them, and fourth faction players would follow the xp and keep us always in balance.
As long as the bonus is huge and ramps to ridiculous, the factions would always be in balance. No one needs to be limited, no one needs to be forced anywhere, everyone can play how, when and with whom they wish.

+1

i think between your and the OP's suggestions there are a lot of factors that can be scaled or adjusted beyond the ham-fisted attempts at population balancing that exist now.

the key i think is that they put in the 1 thing which obviously didn't work and they're just letting it rot rather than make changes.

Ruffdog · 2013-06-20, 04:15 PM

I'm for huge bonuses for under popped empires but certainly not harsh penalties for over popped empires.
All that does is piss off the people who have one character and have been there since the start and have no intention of being auto-balanced. They have no control over the 4th empire so why should they pay with longer respawn times? Maybe they are a tight outfit playing far away from the zerg.
No penalties. Reward with XP, not battle changing stuff like health or whatnot, but XP and certs.

Dougnifico · 2013-06-20, 08:43 PM

My question is, how in god's name did the VS go from being super under populated and constantly bitching, to being seemingly half of all players? Don't tell me its just ZOE max. NC wasn't even this bad in the age of the super-hacksaws.