"Higby pls" process explained

[Rolfski]

With all the recent rage quit drama about people/outfits pulling the plug because this game being "unfinished" and feature X/Y/Z still not into this game, this video might give us some perspective.

Although it does a lousy job of illustrating the passion that lies underneath a product like Planetside 2, this video probably gives us a good idea of the challenges SOE devs are facing every day and the model that lies behind deliberately releasing an "unfinished" product. It's called "Agile software development" and probably was chosen by SOE because it works well with the F2P business model.

In this video: "Product Owner" = Higby/Smedley, "Stakeholder" = We, the players, "User Stories" = Planetside 2 features and "Product Backlog" = Roadmap.

[Thunderhawk]

This is how we work in my company, and the video makes total sense, please watch to educate yourselves as to how Software development works....

[EvilNinjadude]

I'm sad for everyone right now because the dev team is all like "We're working on it! We need time and money!"
And the players are all like, "We gave you time and money, where's our game?"

Your video illustrates the point: Concepts get older for players faster than for developers. Now you just have people going "it's an MMOFPS SO WHAT."

The devs are still trying to make this game better, but they can't do it fast enough. What THEY (the publisher and devs) need is starting to shift their focus as they try to gain time, while long-term stuff is being worked on. Their focus is being shifted to trying to keep new players in the game.

I don't know how much faster new content (Continents) would be hitting the game if they were to focus EXCLUSIVELY on it. I'm not gonna make any calls. Chances are it's not much, according to the devs, but A SHITTON according to many voices on the forums. Both sides have bias. Looks like I'll have to listen to both and neither of them.

[NewSith]

Originally Posted by EvilNinjadude

I'm sad for everyone right now because the dev team is all like "We're working on it! We need time and money!"
And the players are all like, "We gave you time and money, where's our game?"

Your video illustrates the point: Concepts get older for players faster than for developers. Now you just have people going "it's an MMOFPS SO WHAT."

The devs are still trying to make this game better, but they can't do it fast enough. What THEY (the publisher and devs) need is starting to shift their focus as they try to gain time, while long-term stuff is being worked on. Their focus is being shifted to trying to keep new players in the game.

I don't know how much faster new content (Continents) would be hitting the game if they were to focus EXCLUSIVELY on it. I'm not gonna make any calls. Chances are it's not much, according to the devs, but A SHITTON according to many voices on the forums. Both sides have bias. Looks like I'll have to listen to both and neither of them.

I want to quote this in response:

Originally Posted by NewSith

I actually love how instead of creating tented routes to the CC, they are adding a shield instead.

That's PS2 in a nutshell there, excuse my negativism. Instead of implementing simple and working solutions, they instead always add unorthodox, untested and typically faulty ones.

..and it ends up with them needing to fix, rework and revamp the features all the time. Of course they don't have any spare time on their hands.

[camycamera]

yes, more people need to watch this.

[Kiten]

I agree with the definition of Planetside 2 as an Agile Product. I would go as far as to say that this definition is obvious (as long as you have the knowledge needed to use that term, of course).

The problem here is that there are very few games that are so evidently shaped and managed as such; especially so if we just look at games that use first person shooting interfaces. So many of this game's players are not experienced with this style of development, or do not understand what to expect. Regardless, I feel the team gets way too much critique than they deserve.

I do think that some of the people on the team may not be experienced with shooter games from time to time. But they're passionate, and learning more and more with each coming update. I can feel it more and more as time comes by.

Patience is a good thing. I would recommend this to many other Planetside 2 players. Also, a touch of optimism and understanding.

[Canaris]

awesome vid Rolfski, anyone who comes to the development forums should be made watch this as an orientation video before they open their mouths... or flex their fingers as it were heh

[VaderShake]

Originally Posted by Kiten

I agree with the definition of Planetside 2 as an Agile Product. I would go as far as to say that this definition is obvious (as long as you have the knowledge needed to use that term, of course).

The problem here is that there are very few games that are so evidently shaped and managed as such; especially so if we just look at games that use first person shooting interfaces. So many of this game's players are not experienced with this style of development, or do not understand what to expect. Regardless, I feel the team gets way too much critique than they deserve.

I do think that some of the people on the team may not be experienced with shooter games from time to time. But they're passionate, and learning more and more with each coming update. I can feel it more and more as time comes by.

Patience is a good thing. I would recommend this to many other Planetside 2 players. Also, a touch of optimism and understanding.

^^^This, I see this video less for SOE and more for those who want to rage quit. Customers/Players seldom care about the process of product development and just want the end result. I'm sure SOE has a plan and is trying to balance this process. SOE made it clear and has been upfront from the start that this is a long term project for those rage quitting I guess they have no patience and stamina for this process. However by punching out and rage quitting they lose their Stake in the development of the game.

[Shogun]

Originally Posted by Kiten

I do think that some of the people on the team may not be experienced with shooter games from time to time. But they're passionate, and learning more and more with each coming update. I can feel it more and more as time comes by.

well, what did they learn from 10 years of planetside 1?
next to zero! they took all the stuff that didn´t work over to ps2 and scrapped all the things that worked great and made the game so much fun.

[bpostal]

Originally Posted by Shogun

well, what did they learn from 10 years of planetside 1?
next to zero! they took all the stuff that didn´t work over to ps2 and scrapped all the things that worked great and made the game so much fun.

I agree with you, it does seem like many things that were working for nigh on a decade were dumped; throwing the baby out with the bathwater for lack of a better analogy. Hell I've even said pretty much what you've said on this and other forums.
Over time though the shift to reintroduce systems and mechanics from Planetside, such as lattice, has proven to me at least that even if SOE hasn't jumped to straight up remake Planetside, they are at least learning from their mistakes.
Not to mention, by the time it's (Planetside) gotten to the point where it is now, 10 years down the road, the game can be incredibly complicated. It's difficult to remember that when you're immersed in the game but trying to explain the intricate gameplay to someone new can be difficult.
Launching with reduced complexity has, in my mind, been beneficial for the game. If we picked up right where Planetside left off then I firmly believe that the game would have a substantially smaller player base than it does now.
That said, where's mah Global Lattice (with proper cont locks)?!

[Whiteagle]

Originally Posted by NewSith

..and it ends up with them needing to fix, rework and revamp the features all the time. Of course they don't have any spare time on their hands.

Exactly, the reason we end up sounding so pissed off is that their are problems we've spotted from the outset that were NEVER adressed.
For instance, when do you think I drew this:

[Timealude]

Originally Posted by Shogun

well, what did they learn from 10 years of planetside 1?
next to zero! they took all the stuff that didn´t work over to ps2 and scrapped all the things that worked great and made the game so much fun.

its not all the same dev team...

[Dougnifico]

I completely understand. I think where the mistake might have been is the fell behind in speed which lead to money drying up. This forced a release with bad architecture. When that happened, their technical debt was enormous from day one. Optimally, they would have released 6 months later and not had the technical debt, but perhaps finances wouldn't allow. What I hope is, in light of a slowed release schedule, that this technical debt is overcome and they can increase the dev teams delivery capacity.

[WSNeo]

Originally Posted by Timealude

its not all the same dev team...

Neither are the players, but we know what worked, what was fun, and what would keep us playing over an extended period of time.

Instead the devs have decided what THEY think is fun (pump action shotties even though it was downvoted) and it's biting them in the ass (it taking six months for the devs to finally decide to implement the lattice even after toting that the hex was more fun, this as an effect knocked Hossin from it's earliest announcement date from March-May all the way back to August, and Searhus, which the last ETA I remembered was February to unscheduled).

[NewSith]

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Exactly, the reason we end up sounding so pissed off is that their are problems we've spotted from the outset that were NEVER adressed.
For instance, when do you think I drew this:

I bet I beat you to it:
Footholds Archetypes: "Food for Thought" (2012-06-14)