MAX Balance Part 2: TR

Chewy · 2013-07-04, 08:25 PM

Link to the other thread.
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...t-2-tr.139047/

Copy of its OP

Math used.
I don't feel like typing all of my math for every weapon. So I am giving my math here and just typing the end bits for miss %, TTK, and DPS to save time and my fingers.
ROF / 60 = RPS X 2 = Dual RPS
Total Shots X Damage Per Round = Possible Damage - 10,000(assumed MAX HP) = Missed Damage
(Missed Damage / Possible Damage) X 100 = Miss %
Shots fired / Dual RPS = Fire Time + Reloads = TTK
10,000(MAX HP) / TTK = DPS

TR MAX AI weapons.

Heavy Cycler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOTk...fOVrF&index=11

Stats
Max Damage: 143 before 10m
Min Damage: 125 after 65m
Damage Drop: .32
Short Reload: 2.4s
Long Reload: 3s
Fire Rate: 400

MAX v MAX
0m- 69
10m- 68, 78, 70 (72 average)
20m- 117, 110, 120 (115.66 average)
30m- 178, 188, 170 (178.66 average)

Onslaught
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtAY...FfOVrF&index=9

Stats
Max Damage: 120 before 10m
Min Damage: 100 after 50m
Damage Drop: .5
Short Reload: 2.2s
Long Reload: 2.8s
Fire Rate: 492

MAX vMAX
0m- 80
10m- 80, 88, 84 (84 average)
20m- 130, 120, 156, 134 (135 average)
30m- 190, 208, 180 (192.66 average)

Mutilator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBcx...fOVrF&index=10

Stats
Max Damage: 143 before 10m
Min Damage: 125 after 65m
Damage Drop: .32
Short Reload: 2.9s
Long Reload: 3.4s
Fire Rate: 400

MAX v MAX
0m- 69
10m- 68, 70, 72 (70 average)
20m- 122, 116, 138 (125.33 average)
30m- 162, 140, 192 (164.66 average)

Mercy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar6v...fOVrF&index=12

Stats
Damage: 125
Short Reload: 2.6s
Long Reload: 3s
Fire Rate: 426

MAX v MAX
0m- 80
10m- 76, 78, 72 (75.33 average)
20m- 110, 100, 106, 110 (106.5 average)
30m- 142, 132, 134 (136 average)

Resultes in order of 0m, 10m, 20m, 30m

Heavy Cycler
0% miss________2.87% miss_____38.15% miss___59.02% miss
5.17 TTK_______5.4 TTK________8.67 TTK______16.4 TTK
1,934.23 DPS___1,851.85 DPS___1,153.4 DPS___609.75 DPS

Onslaught
0% miss________<1% miss_______35.58% miss__52.81% miss
4.8 TTK________5.12 TTK_______11.03 TTK____17.34 TTK
2,083.33 DPS___1,953.12 DPS___906.61 DPS___576.7 DPS

Mutilator
0% miss________<1% miss_______42.92% miss____55.54% miss
5.17 TTK_______5.25 TTK_______9.4 TTK________12.35 TTK
1,934.23 DPS___1,904.76 DPS___1,063.82 DPS___809.71 DPS

Mercy
0% miss________<1% miss_______24.88% miss__41.17% miss
5.63 TTK_______5.3 TTK________10.5 TTK_____12.57 TTK
1,776.19 DPS___1,886.79 DPS___952.38 DPS___795.54 DPS

Opinions-
So hard to choose. All of them are great weapons but if I must choose. Then the Mutilator would be my pick for best TR AI MAX weapon. Not needing a reload for 30m really makes the Mutilator something to be feared. Those 100 round mags are just DAMN.

As with the thread I made for NC MAX AI weapons, please wait for I finish one for the VS so that we can have everything. If Im going to end the myths for MAX balance then we need all of the data first. 2/3 isn't good enough for me. But use this as you wish. Even though Im NC scum data like this should be invaluable to TR outfits. You owe me. I want a cookie or one internet please.

OCNSethy · 2013-07-04, 08:39 PM

Thanks Chewy.

Im using duel Mutilators ATM but I sometimes feel that maybe the Mercies may be better.. You have confirmed why its so hard to decide.

Nice work man, Kudos!

bpostal · 2013-07-04, 09:40 PM

So...should I be crying for a buff? Because it's all just numbers to me.

Chewy · 2013-07-04, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by bpostal

So...should I be crying for a buff? Because it's all just numbers to me.

This is part 2 of 4 to get as close to the truth of MAX AI balance as I can. 1 is NC MAX stats, 2 is TR, 3 is VS, and 4 is where Im going to compare them all.

But by these numbers. TR should have the best AI weapons in TTK and DPS but are lacking in miss % behind the VS. TR and VS MAXes are kinda even. SOE did good on that. Both have their own feels and both can kick ass. NC MAXes on the other hand can't get out of the door, literally.

bpostal · 2013-07-05, 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by Chewy

This is part 2 of 4 to get as close to the truth of MAX AI balance as I can. 1 is NC MAX stats, 2 is TR, 3 is VS, and 4 is where Im going to compare them all.

But by these numbers. TR should have the best AI weapons in TTK and DPS but are lacking in miss % behind the VS. TR and VS MAXes are kinda even. SOE did good on that. Both have their own feels and both can kick ass. NC MAXes on the other hand can't get out of the door, literally.

I suppose I'll buy that overall, the TR and VS MAX weaponry is more useful. Or rather we have more viable options for more varied situations. If the NC is pigeonholed into being the short range king (and no amount of math or ttk analysis is going to be able to say otherwise) then at least you've got the close range locked down. That's where the cap point is, that's where the fighting is going to happen and that's where the NC are their strongest.
As for the VS and their ZOE, they can dance...just not as well as they used to.

Kalee J · 2013-07-05, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by bpostal

As for the VS and their ZOE, they can dance...just not as well as they used to.

I don't know about that. The ladies still dig my mojo.

Ruffdog · 2013-07-05, 02:27 PM

Nice data! I'm rocking extended Mutilator and extended Onslaught. Makes a great sound now compared to when I used to have dual arms of one weapon system. Especially on lockdown 5

Maginnis · 2013-07-05, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by bpostal

I suppose I'll buy that overall, the TR and VS MAX weaponry is more useful. Or rather we have more viable options for more varied situations. If the NC is pigeonholed into being the short range king (and no amount of math or ttk analysis is going to be able to say otherwise) then at least you've got the close range locked down. That's where the cap point is, that's where the fighting is going to happen and that's where the NC are their strongest.
As for the VS and their ZOE, they can dance...just not as well as they used to.

Except, no cap point is 10m x 10m, and if it were, the NC max would die to flash+C4 or concussion/rockets. Honestly, it's analogous to having a razor-sharp dagger when your opponent has a baseball bat. If you can't get in range, you'll get clubbed to death before you can do any damage.

Speaking of mechanics like flashbang or concussion. I'd argue those actually are slightly less of an issue for VS/TR maxes also. The reason being that when you're blind, you can continue to shoot. For NC maxes, the CoF, range and
small clip size prevent the blind max from continuing to shoot effectively, whereas certain other maxes could just spray and pray in the direction they were probably already facing (often a doorway), perhaps suppressing/killing the thrower of the grenade as they try to push into the location.
The point is, the VS/TR maxes are, for intents and purposes, just as deadly at close range as the NC, but better at medium range.

The thing is, any amount of damage over the amount needed to kill a target is simply noise in discussion. If the peak HP of an infantry target is ~2200 (HA with NW5 and Resist Shield), DPS over that amount is irrelevant, except when discussing soft targets with resistances (Maxes). All of the maxes appear to have sub-1 second TTK at 10m or less, based on the OP's numbers and my own experience in-game.

In effect, the only area that the NC Max really has any advantage is versus another max, at 8m or less, which is not really a factor since it can't be looked at in a vacuum. Maxes are not balanced to be considered without infantry support. Additionally, it could easily be argued that the NC Max isn't commonly going to get into sub 10m range without either charging or using an Aegis shield. When charging, you're opening yourself up to taking fire as you approach, and with a shield, your opponent might be able to back away and unload clips into your shield until it's depleted, especially if it's a VS ZOE Max.

Again, numbers are fun, but we have to understand the context for the numbers. Having a 1000HP on your car is useless unless you have traction to apply it, and having the most DPS at <10m makes little or no difference if you can't get close enough to exploit it versus the targets which actually live long enough for the increased damage to matter.