MAX Balnace Part 3: VS

Chewy · 2013-07-04, 10:03 PM

Link
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...t-3-vs.139055/

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Math used.
I don't feel like typing all of my math for every weapon. So I am giving my math here and just typing the end bits for miss %, TTK, and DPS to save time and my fingers.
ROF / 60 = RPS X 2 = Dual RPS
Total Shots X Damage Per Round = Possible Damage - 10,000(assumed MAX HP) = Missed Damage
(Missed Damage / Possible Damage) X 100 = Miss %
Shots fired / Dual RPS = Fire Time + Reloads = TTK
10,000(MAX HP) / TTK = DPS

VS MAX AI weapons.

Quasar

Stats
Max Damage: 167 before 10m
Min Damage: 143 after 75m
Damage Drop: .36
Short Reload: 2.1s
Long Reload: 2.8s
Fire rate: 337

MAX v MAX
0m- 59
10m- 58, 62, 60 (60 average)
20m- 104, 100, 86, 88 (94.5 average)
30m- 122, 140, 126 (129.33 average)

Nebula

Stats
Max Damage: 143 before 10m
Min Damage: 112 after 50m
Damage Drop: .77
Short Reload: 2.15s
Long Reload: 2.6s
Fire Rate: 426

MAX v MAX
0m- 69
10m- 72, 68, 70 (70 average)
20m- 100, 108, 100 (102.66 average)
30m- 148, 180, 188 (172 average)

Cosmos

Stats
Max Damage: 167 before 10m
Min Damage: 143 after 75m
Damage Drop: .36
Short Reload: 2.4s
Long Reload: 3.2s
Fire Rate: 337

MAX v MAX
0m- 59
10m- 56, 60, 62 (59.33 average)
20m- 96, 106, 100 (100.66 average)
30m- 156, 128, 144, 128, 124 (136 average)

Blueshift

Stats
Max Damage: 143 before 10m
Min Damage: 10 after 75m
Damage Drop: 2.04
Short Reload: 2s
Long Reload: 2.7s
Fire Rate: 366

MAX v MAX
0m- 69
10m- 68, 72, 72 (70.66 average)
20m- 80, 80, 80, (80 average)
30m- 112, 120, 104 (112 average)

Results in order of 0m, 10m, 20m, 30m.

Quasar
0% miss________<1% miss_______35.23% miss____51.61% miss
5.25 TTK_______5.34 TTK_______8.41 TTK_______14.31 TTK
1,904.76 DPS___1,872.65 DPS___1,189.06 DPS___698.81

Nebula
0% miss________<1% miss______35.36% miss____54.43% miss
4.85 TTK_______4.92 TTK_______9.82 TTK_______14.71 TTK
2,061.85 DPS___2,032.52 DPS___1,018.32 DPS___679.8 DPS

Cosmos
0% miss________<1% miss_______39.2% miss_____53.98% miss
5.25 TTK_______5.28 TTK_______8.96 TTK_______12.11 TTK
1,904.76 DPS___1,893.93 DPS___1,116.07 DPS___825.76 DPS

Blueshift
0% miss________<1% miss_______<1% miss_______12.63% miss
5.65 TTK_______5.79 TTK_______6.55 TTK_______11.88 TTK
1,769.91 DPS___1,727.11 DPS___1,526.71 DPS___841.75 DPS

Opinions-
How the hell does the VS have a bad MAX? Next to the TR MAX AI weapons these do have lower DPS and higher TTK but by such a little amount that you will not notice at all in live gameplay thanks to the better miss % for VS weapons. I had to double take on the Blueshift stats more than once when they had an <1% miss for 10m and 20m. Slap extended mags on those things and you have a force of god before ZOE boosts the damage. Holy hell.

Yeah, that's all 3 of the factions! Now I just have to make a 4th thread to compare all of the data. Sad part is that this sugar rush from Pop Rocks is turning into a headache so that might have to wait for another day. Epic candy.

As with other 2 threads. Use as you wish. Just remember that this on is about VS MAXes and the others are for TR and NC MAXes. I haven't made the comparisons yet with all of the data in one place. And Im still waiting on that cookie.

phungus · 2013-07-05, 03:41 AM

My VS MAX just uses dual comets. They are solid AI weapons once you get the lead down, and they are very good at destroying armor. Only have level 3 ZOE and they still feel very beastly. I'd go as far as to say Comets are perfect weapons, and perfect in a good skill floor/ceiling not at risk of being nerfed way.

Gatekeeper · 2013-07-05, 03:50 AM

Yeah, the Comet is pretty solid and fun to use.

The only real complaint I have about the VS MAX is that the Vortex is very weak against infantry, and seems like it could use a buff in that department compared to the Fracture and Raven.

Twido · 2013-07-05, 04:31 AM

Thanks for going to all this effort Chewy!

I was curious how you are calculating the miss rate, do you have some kind of calculation based on sustained fire or are you using empirical data?

PredatorFour · 2013-07-05, 05:54 AM

I concur that dual comets are epic. In a bio fight i will almost exclusively use cosmos except for when there's lots of enemies on a point and i pull comets. Firing a few volleys into the room normally creates abit of panic

...though not as much as frac's.

Chewy · 2013-07-05, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Twido

Thanks for going to all this effort Chewy!

I was curious how you are calculating the miss rate, do you have some kind of calculation based on sustained fire or are you using empirical data?

I got the miss rate from knowing how much damage a MAX can take against how much damage was sent down range. Any damage sent over a MAXes HP should be pure misses or the MAX would have taken more damage than it's HP.

I put the math up top in the OP.
Total Shots X Damage Per Round = Possible Damage - 10,000(assumed MAX HP) = Missed Damage
(Missed Damage / Possible Damage) X 100 = Miss %

If you want hit % then just flip the miss % around by subtracting 100 and removing the negative. Take a 33% miss for example. 33 - 100 = -67%. Ignore the - and you have a 67% hit rate for that range.

Thing is Im assuming 10,000 is a MAXes HP. It is not. The real number is around 9,800-9,900 for pure small arms fire but I don't know the exact number for a few reasons. Main reason is just how the 80% resistance is used. Does the damage taken go into .XX numbers or deeper? Is the damage rounded, if so up or down and where (x, .x, .0x)? Is headshot multiplier taken before or after resistances?

Instead of working out the real MAX HP number I just bumped it to the assumed 10,000. It makes the math a bit easier. Plus it would have taken a LOT of work to find out the exact number. First I would have to get small arms weapons that had nice looking damage and damage drop numbers so that I could count the needed rounds to kill with the exact damage I was doing at a range. Then do the same again and again for other weapons. After that Id average it all out in hopes of finding an exact number.

This also doesn't count for explosive damage. That isn't changed by the 80% small arms resistance and has one of its own. So any work with AV weapons would need an entire new set of math and numbers. Then you have heavy arms fire like mounted guns. I don't know if they use the small arms resistance or have yet ANOTHER resistance type to account for.

It took long enough to get this crap. I wouldn't know where to start in getting something for explosive and heavy arms fire. And without knowing the resistances and HP numbers I don't think I could.

Dragonskin · 2013-07-05, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Chewy

It took long enough to get this crap. I wouldn't know where to start in getting something for explosive and heavy arms fire. And without knowing the resistances and HP numbers I don't think I could.

The Kinetic armor shows that base is 80% and max rank raises it up to 87.25%. I think maxes don't have a natural explosive resistance. Flak armor starts at 0% up to 50%. I could be wrong. A decimator does 2000 damage right? How many shots from a decimator can a max take without armor? You could use a combination of decimator and guass saw. 2000 per decimator and 40 per gauss saw hit... can get a rough estimate of total max HP. I want to say it's closer to 2000 HP total because 1 decimator will flat out kill a ZOE max without max flak armor.

Heavy fire would be harder to test. You could at least test if anything helps with resistance. Just wear flak or kinetic and look at how many bars of damage you take per shot. If they change compared to without armor then you know there is some resistance there..., but without heavy weapon damage values it won't help a whole lot.

Edit-
Actually I think a max is 2,500 HP. I know a ZOE max will die in 1 shot to a decimator without flak armor. Decimator does 2000 damage.. with ZOE on you take 2,600 damage without flak. I don't think a decimator would normaly 1 shot a max.. they seem to have a few slivers left. Leads me to believe 2,500 HP is probably it.

AThreatToYou · 2013-07-05, 04:54 PM

The DPS can be as wrong as it wants, the rest of this data is very useful.

Especially considering the Blueshift. Dear heavens... I am tempted to roll a VS SuperSoldier just to test that out.

Chewy · 2013-07-05, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

The DPS can be as wrong as it wants, the rest of this data is very useful.

Especially considering the Blueshift. Dear heavens... I am tempted to roll a VS SuperSoldier just to test that out.

It isn't as much as DPS number can be wrong. It's that there is a DPS number for each weapon at every range for each target.

MAX v MAX DPS at 10m isn't going to be the same as MAX v Infantry DPS at 10m as infantry is a smaller target but much lower health.

So, take one weapon times that by the number of targets (infantry, MAX, flash ESF, Harasser) then times that for every single range. After that you have to do it for each weapon then for each faction. That is how DPS can change and why I hate when people just mash 2 numbers together and think they have a weapons DPS.

Shot end of the number of DPS numbers for what I typed above at 0m-30m tests at 10m intervals. 240. 240 different DPS numbers for the 3 factions with all 4 of their AI weapons against the 5 targets they can fight. Wait, I forgot the MANA turrets. That brings it up to 336 total DPS numbers just for the MAX AI weapons. And I haven't even started with MAX AV/AA weapons and the fuck-ton of infantry and vehicle weapons.

It boils to this I think. DPS means shit if you don't say what weapon it is for, how you got it, what range it is, and what target it is on.