Does anyone else think that bases need to be redesigned?

EVILoHOMER · 2013-07-09, 07:24 PM

I find it funny how we asked for it in Planetside and it never happened, I think the most SOE ever did was add a force field to one base per island or something like that. Now really IMO Planetside 2 needs it as well because bases are actually worse than in Planetside. What myths me though is how they're so giant, but really that is just eye candy because there is hardly any floor plan to them. What SOE could have done is made them into little cities, instead they're basically walls with huts.

They're impossible to defend, I think it's a combo of bad design, with hot dropping and that teleporter that is always ages away from the base that leads right into it. Really all that ever happens is you get spawn camped so you go somewhere else where the fighting is fun. It's not fun for the attacking side either, you come up to the base, the enemy gives up, goes somewhere else and you're stuck there watching the spawns while people fire fireworks and you wait for the countdown timer.

The problem is vehicles can just dominate them and then you just have a cluster fuck inside the tiny floor plan so you have no freedom to move without dying. At least in Planetside the base design had space to them and you could set up defences. Even better though you could just kill the tubes so you don't have to stick around for so long.

I was really hoping for bases to be dense and infantry focused like a normal FPS map, they'd be little cities where vehicles couldn't get around so easily with lots of buildings and places to go. Instead we got what might as well be in a skybox....

I would really love for SOE to redesign the bases one by one. I really think the amp station just needs a roof on it, it's got quite a lot of space inside to be a big complex, sadly it's just dominated by the air. I think that's the simplest to fix as it's the best functioning if it just had a roof. Other bases like the biolab are just a mess and need a total redesign.

DirtyBird · 2013-07-09, 07:26 PM

What is your characters name in game?

ChipMHazard · 2013-07-09, 07:27 PM

They are going to redesign the bases.

SerethiX · 2013-07-09, 07:30 PM

I agree with you in some point, why the Bio lab needs a redesign? I think they made gameplay in biolabs a great fun.

Amp stations and techplants surely need to be redesigned. What they did at The Stronghold is a step into the right direction, but it's still not perfect, the tunnel seems pretty white washed and offers only a little cover...

SerethiX - www.serethi.de

Crator · 2013-07-09, 07:38 PM

Well, they are going to put those dome shields in. Should help out a lot at those open bases. They added tunnels since the game came out and that was good but I don't think enough people use them. As for the comment about killing the tubes, they actually added that to Biolabs not long ago. So you not only kill the tubes but the spawn room doors go down eventually and you can rush in and kill all that are left. The only problem left is that they still make you wait around until a capture timer finishes to get XP. You can't just leave the hex and get XP if you were there. I wish they'd make the capture XP variable, based on how much fighting you participated in and could move outside of the hex after the fight is over and still get XP when the capture goes through.

DarkBalths · 2013-07-09, 07:48 PM

I'm hoping that the base that it looks like they're adding to Esamir, The Octagon, will be the kind of facility like the Stronghold where you have to go inside. Imagine the stronghold but with an actual roof (NOT a dome shield, those are dumb.)
That would be great.

Timithos · 2013-07-09, 10:14 PM

Yes. Bases need to be changed. And a pro-defender mentality needs to be re-adopted. What good is a facility if ownership of it does not allow you to defend while out-numbered? SOE has been stripping away defender advantages, and the turning point was about March. They want Steamrollside, and facilities to change hands fluidly. I big reason for this is esports. Well now that they've developed an arena for their esports, maybe they can focus on base design that isn't wrecked by esports.

We've seen enhancements for defenders. We didn't have much of any walls in the beginning. As time marches on we keep getting more walls, and more overhead cover, and blast plates to protect against shells, but it is still designed wrong. And those dome shields coming as they are currently designed are actually more pro-attacker. We'll have attackers bringing in superior air domination, and then once that is done, they'll be throwing picnics on top of the shield waiting to drop off the edge at their leisure.

In base design we needs spawn rooms that are not big fish bowls sitting out in the open ready to be camped. We need underground spawning facilities, buildings within buildings, tunnels, closer proximity to capture points with relatively protected access avenues, trenches; walls that encompass the spawn/capture/vehicle terminal/generators, not obstruct them. Spawn rooms need multiple exits that are WAY spread out. A tunnel this way, a trench that way, etc. If attackers want to "camp" a facility spawn, they have to cover 3, 4, 5, 6+ egresses spread out over 100-150 meters per area at EVERY facility. We need walls that have crates and catwalks on the DEFENDER'S side only.

We need some pro-defender mechanics back into the game. Anyone can overload a generator, but only a defending engineer can fix it! HOW MUCH SENSE DOES THAT MAKE? It makes no sense, because SOE stopped being pro-facility/pro-defender. How about this? ONLY an infiltrator or engineer (not both) can over-load a generator? OH MY SO RADICAL!

We need mechanics like, defending max's can resecure a capture point, but attacking max's can't. Or defending engineers can deploy a turret and cap the point at the same time, but attacking engineers can't.

There are no cover mechanics. Crouch behind a crate, or on top of a building with just your head exposed? You just give the enemy a more focused spot to give you a critical head shot - no damage reduction provided for cover at all.

And ghost hacking! Good gosh they haven't put anything in place to stop that. Even on Indar, if you stumble into a facility on the lattice alone, you can flip the point and LEAVE!

How about this? Defenders can flip their points and leave to DEFEND. Attackers CAN'T! They must keep someone on the point in order for it to maintain the hack. WALLA! Solves ghost hacking too!

I could go on, and on, and on...

Timithos · 2013-07-09, 10:25 PM

I'd also like to see some of the old capture point mechanics come back, like requiring multiple attackers to stay on point to capture the facility faster. But this time while the defenders can see who is on point, the attackers can't! It's not their facility! Why would they get access to that information? DUH!

Timithos · 2013-07-09, 10:30 PM

What about the sunderer no-deploy zones? That should be for the attackers only right? But it probably isn't again, right?

bpostal · 2013-07-10, 03:11 AM

I think we all think they need an overhaul. Personally FigmentOfYerImagination should just be hired on as a contractor, I like a lot of his stuff.
There's been a good amount of people who have been talking about the problem with base layout/design since beta, and probably earlier. It's something SOE knows about and they've been chipping away at the problem slowly but surely.
I'm of a mind that it's an issue of scalability. The base needs to be as fun and defensible with a squad as it is with multiple platoons. Therein lies the rub.

Rivenshield · 2013-07-10, 03:26 AM

>Does anyone else think that bases need to be redesigned?
Yes. And we've been saying so since early beta. To very little avail. And we don't need kludges like the gayass dome shield. We need medium-sized bases that are DESIGNED TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT.

/grinds teeth

Maidere · 2013-07-10, 04:10 AM

From scratch - most of them. Not gonna happen tho.

ringring · 2013-07-10, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by Maidere

From scratch - most of them. Not gonna happen tho.

The acid test will be with the new Dropship and Interlink bases.

If those are the same chaotic indefensible random boxes then either:
a) the devs want bases to be chaotic and indefensible
b) there's some kind of tech restriction that rules out layered bases with 'basements'.

Nathaniak · 2013-07-10, 05:49 AM

I've been saying this (as have many others) for a long time. IMO, the devs want most bases to confer equal advantage to both sides. This would be fine, were it not for the fact that the defender is inherently disadvantaged - they're trying to defend a single location, whilst the attackers can attack from anywhere.

I would like to see bases where 30 defenders can reliably hold off 40 attackers of equal skill/organisation. There are little things that can be done. Remember the old Tech Plants, where the shield gen was inside the base? What about placing a shield there that powers a shield protecting the current generators? That way, the attackers have to fight their way in through the back door and it takes several minutes until the vehicle bay shields drop. This allows defenders to have a proper defence, and attackers can still use Gal-drops and gate diffuser Sunderers to get in if they organise.

PredatorFour · 2013-07-10, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by bpostal

I think we all think they need an overhaul. Personally FigmentOfYerImagination should just be hired on as a contractor, I like a lot of his stuff.

Seriously, if they would have done that ages ago.. this game would've been where it deserves to be in the halls of greatness! Instead of a battlefield/generic shooter game.