Implants and Components

EVILPIG · 2013-08-22, 12:13 PM

I was excited to hear the announcement that Implants may be combined to make higher tier implants and that they may be random drops. This is very similar to something I put together a while back, so I'd like to take a crack at this with any input.

First of all, I would not make Implants a drop. I would make Components, the pieces that can be combined to make Implants, a drop. Also, some Components could be a drop and others could come from certain structures or base types. Let's look at simply using drops.

Whenever you capture or defend a territory, whether it's a base or outpost, there's a chance that a corresponding Component will "drop" (be added to your Component Supply).

Whenever you kill a unit, there is a chance that you will receive a corresponding Component based on what you killed. There can be separate Components for each Class and Each vehicle in the game.

Whenever you perform a Support Action, there's a chance you will receive a corresponding Component, based on the type of Support Action you are performing.

Now, all Implants would have to be manufactured by having all the necessary Components. Using the drop criteria above, let's count up how many Component types we can have.

Generic Component List, based on source.

Capture drops: 5
Amp Stations
Biolabs
Interlink Facility
Tech Plant
Outposts

Kill drops: 18
Combat Medic
Engineer
Heavy Assault
Infiltrator
Light Assault
MAX

ESF
Flash
Galaxy
Harasser
Liberator
Lightning
MBT
Sunderer

Generator/SCU Overload
Turret AA
Turret AI
Turret AV

Support Drops: 7

Healing
Repairing MAX or Vehicle
Repairing Structure
Recon Detection
Reviving Soldier
Supplying Ammo
Supplying Respawn (S-AMS)

Ok, there's 30 sources for Component drops. We could make 30 different components or overlap some of them, but either way, that's the first step. Once you collect Components, you can combine them to build implants. Implants would be slotted like Boosts in their own Implant Slot. Depending on the type and Components used to build them, they would have different durations. For example, I could build a Darklight Implant that would last an hour, or for 40% more Components, it could last a day. The increased Component cost could not only be more volume of Component, but adding different types. Each Implant would have a formula for creating it.

That's the basics. Any thoughts on how to flesh this out or make it better? Should the Implant list simply list Implants you have the Components to build as Green or Red if not enough, or should it have more of a Crafting feel?

Sledgecrushr · 2013-08-22, 01:19 PM

I really love the idea of crafting in this game. The only thing I would be wary of is power creep. All implants should only give very marginal buffs.

mrmrmrj · 2013-08-22, 02:12 PM

Crafting has no place in PS2. I mean, really? The idea is ridiculous.

Wahooo · 2013-08-22, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

I really love the idea of crafting in this game. The only thing I would be wary of is power creep. All implants should only give very marginal buffs.

Yeah, worry about implants being way too much power.
Also the component drop can be a slippery slope. Some people have a varied enough play style it isn't an issue, but to introduce a mechanic that kinda forces people to do things they would normally not, like pure support need X number of kills of a certain type, or people who simply don't play support roles needing to have x number of revives. I puts a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths and those people are downers to those around them.

One of Global Agenda's big flaws was along this, only certain things gained by certain missions. You had pure PVE people basically AFKing in PVP matches because they felt the game forced them to be there. I can see the same sort of thing with people running around rezzing furiously with a rank 1 med app and then complaining it is the game forcing them to do this.

Much thought needs to go into implementation of these.

KesTro · 2013-08-23, 04:11 AM

it sounds like an amusing idea but I'm inclined to agree with Wahooo on this one as far as forcing people to fall into a certain plastyle to 'farm' for implants.

Varsam · 2013-08-23, 05:16 AM

gotta agree with wahooo and kestro. in addition, tying components to base caps and defends promotes ghost capping - it is significantly easier and more reliable to cap an undefended base than to defend one being attacked with the possibility of failure.

Redshift · 2013-08-23, 07:25 AM

crafting..... in an fps

So basically run around doing what you normally do then spend a few mins making whatever you can before you log out, boring.

ofc you'll need these implants to compete now so people will just get pissed off.

I hate this whole idea of random drops, it puts more luck into an fps which is bad design.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-08-23, 07:32 AM

The implant shards I think should just randomly pop up in your implant imventory as you play. Then as you see fit you can do a quick combine to match what you are doing and then socket the implant.

Make this a quick little streamlined activity where the players get a feeling of more control over their characters and I think it would be a lot of fun.

Crator · 2013-08-23, 08:47 AM

Wait, when was this announced? This is first time I've heard of it. I don't like it either. I don't want to have to farm and combine crap. Why does everything they do in PS2 have to be different from PS1? Why can't implants be just like they were in PS1?

Wahooo · 2013-08-23, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Crator

Wait, when was this announced? This is first time I've heard of it. I don't like it either. I don't want to have to farm and combine crap. Why does everything they do in PS2 have to be different from PS1? Why can't implants be just like they were in PS1?

I read the OP wrong the first time as well.

Implants have been announced with some possibilities.
OP thought it might be cool to add in a crafting system for the implants.

I read that it was incoming and thought well if it is going that way what needs to happen to make it ok? It is just an idea from EvilPig.
My thought and the more I think about it the more I don't like it, ANY time you introduce crafting you introduce component farming. Doesn't matter how random the drops or what they are tied to, a LOT of people feel they are forced to farm mats to compete and have the best implants. Just the nature of gamers. The result in a PVP shooter? There are not a lot of places to look for history but in Global Agenda it was a colossal failure. They had a good thing started and the more they added RPG elements into the game the deeper the grave it dug. It wasn't just the crafting that was there from the start, but the more complex it got and tying drops to actions.

Basically I don't see it implemented well in this game, OR rather if it happened it needs to be a long, LONG way off as they work on balancing the game adding content and simply getting implants into the game that aren't to OP AND aren't acquired in a way to increase a Pay to Win feeling.

EVILPIG · 2013-08-23, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Wahooo

I read the OP wrong the first time as well.

Implants have been announced with some possibilities.
OP thought it might be cool to add in a crafting system for the implants.

I read that it was incoming and thought well if it is going that way what needs to happen to make it ok? It is just an idea from EvilPig.
My thought and the more I think about it the more I don't like it, ANY time you introduce crafting you introduce component farming. Doesn't matter how random the drops or what they are tied to, a LOT of people feel they are forced to farm mats to compete and have the best implants. Just the nature of gamers. The result in a PVP shooter? There are not a lot of places to look for history but in Global Agenda it was a colossal failure. They had a good thing started and the more they added RPG elements into the game the deeper the grave it dug. It wasn't just the crafting that was there from the start, but the more complex it got and tying drops to actions.

Basically I don't see it implemented well in this game, OR rather if it happened it needs to be a long, LONG way off as they work on balancing the game adding content and simply getting implants into the game that aren't to OP AND aren't acquired in a way to increase a Pay to Win feeling.

I mentioned a crafting system, but would prefer it is as simple as the implants are simply available to you if you have the right components. There is also simply adding a generic component that all drops would drop and you spend those (like resources) on implants.

What do you think about the current concept by the developers? Implants themselves would randomly drop from actions and those implants can be combined to make stronger implants. I didn't like the idea of implants dropping, so I created a component system.

Wahooo · 2013-08-23, 02:29 PM

Yeah, I don't like random. Really when it gets put into action more often than not random is bad in the long run.

A simple component accumulation that is not tied to any particular action but happens just like XP gain and maybe 3 components, (now here I said I didn't like random but this is a bit different) any time you get to a certain XP mark you get a component and a dice roll for basically a common, an uncommon OR a rare component.

So yeah in that way more control over the implants you can have, rather than building up a bunch you don't really use and never having that one you really want.

Neurotoxin · 2013-08-23, 03:57 PM

I'm willing to try the system they propose and implement, but it sounds like I'm leaning more towards "try again" on this one. I don't know why they are avoiding a revision of the PS1 implant system and going with these weird new versions.

Let me pick my implants before I spawn, let them have a short to long charge-up time, let them be disabled by jammers or being killed and being revived. That is what I'm looking for with the implant system. I don't want randomness, I want consistency. And there probably should not be "levels" to implants, it makes no sense why we can't just get the best tech available.