Moving to 2 flight models for ESF's

[Larington]

May be a bit late into the games lifespan to suggest this but here goes:

Rather than having a one-size-fits-all flight model that allows an ESF to go from hovering to full afterburn speed in moments, I'd like to suggest that we split it out into two flight models that behave differently. On the menu screen for acquiring an ESF the Utility, Defence & Performance slots are moved across one and a new Mode slot is added in which you can select either

VTOL - Can point the nose of the aircraft up/down, which won't affect movement speed. It has especially high maneuverability and can move backwards as quickly as it can forwards, up, down, left and right. It's main weakness is that its maximum speed is half that of an Intercept mode (Can be tweaked obviously) but it's acceleration is much higher to compensate.
Up/down thrust ignores the pitch & yaw of the aircraft instead simply moving it up/down vertically. The VTOL flight model acts as a small gunship instead of an air superiority plane, using terrain to cover its approach and retreat whilst keeping enemy positions suppressed with high damage and can also be seen ducking in and out of terrain to fire each salvo. The impact of afterburning is moderately reduced on all but forward movement (where it's lightly reduced) and is more for increasing acceleration instead of speed.

Interceptor - The aircraft's pitch affects flight speed (angle the nose is pointing up/down). When landing the pilot must point the nose up to zero the speed boost before letting gravity and downwards thrust take hold. The Interceptor CANNOT fly backwards and focuses on using speed to intercept and destroy enemy targets. By going high and diving they can surprise enemy targets and be away before the target can react, but struggle to stay in an area hovering around because of the forced extra speed created by pitch.

To land the pilot points the nose up roughly 40 degrees which zeroes the speed boost created by the pitch of the aircraft. If the aircraft is level pitch speed is 40kph more and if the nose points down it can be as much as 100kph faster (Nose straight down towards the ground). The lift factor granted by afterburners is reduced (used to initiate the reverse maneuver), as vertical thrusting is now for smaller adjustments and landing instead of being a major component of dog-fighting.

Comment:
The above probably isn't perfect and would need some refinement. The main aim is to allow reverse based combat in an ESF but restricting it to people who are willing to accept the trade-off of a slower moving aircraft. It creates an interesting decision (I could see myself wanting to do either mode) and encourages specialization in piloting. Helps to penalize pilots who try to 'farm' a lightly defended/manned base by either limiting their ability to stay still in the area or easily/quickly flee when that lightly defended base pulls anti-air to counter an ESF flying in close proximity to a spawn building.

[Memeotis]

I agree. This game should've gone with the same approach Battlefield 3 did, because not only would the game be much easier to balance, I think it could be significantly better than what Battlefield has to offer.

The limitations of Battlefield means that only a few aircraft can be in the map at any given time, and if those pilots are significantly better than the opposing team, then it is very likely to be an uneven battle. Even if you happen to have good pilots on your team that could turn the tide of the battle, they might not be able to get into the air, because the few vehicles at their disposal are already occupied.

Planetside doesn't have this restriction. So if you instead of the current ESF had some sort of slow-moving apache-esque gunship, and a quick jet with passable VTOL capabilities, I think you could get a much more fluid type of combat.

I think BF3, in spite of its weaknesses, has demonstrated that although you're in a A2A fighter, you can still have a significant impact on how things progress on the ground. However, more importantly, when you enter one of the helicopters in Battlefield, your effectiveness is very dependent upon what is going on down on the ground, and therefore you have a big incentive to provide support. However, when you enter an ESF, if things are not progressing well, you can simply hit the boost and go to a new area.

[Oracen]

I'd like to just see a bunch of empire-specific A2A jets, based around the "interceptor" archetype.I think SOE missed a real opportunity by adding all these new A2A weapons to the ESF, as the ESF is suited to the ground attack role due to its flight model. But hey, if we could get an interceptor at all, that would be pretty sweet.

[Obstruction]

in planetside 2 air we have something unique in gaming. therefore i do not at all agree with any suggestions that aim to diminish the experience. if you want to fly like battlefield 3, there is not only battlefield 3, but soon, battlefield 4, as well as war thunder and many other traditional flight combat sims.

but, for the sake of a robust discussion, i would fly a fixed wing in this game if:

• faster than ESF by an order of magnitude (350kph stock)
• half the size of the Liberator
• strong selection of wing mount and nose weapons
• 360 degree gunner position on the dorsal surface (the top)
• gunner may switch view to secondary, ventral "bomb bay" weapon
• strong, varied selection of dorsal weapons, and strong selection of bombs, including utility or support focused loadout options.

the drawbacks could be many and varied, including but not limited to stall speed, turn rate, and requirement of a landing zone at the warpgate that will of course always be crowded by derps waiting to make you crash and burn.

but because landing and takeoff would be hellishly unmanageable, it would probably have to rely on some sort of weird mechanic. for example, orbital insertion and "calling in" an NPC airborne refueling rig.

[Larington]

Obstruction you misunderstand, I didn't post this just because I wanted to play something that apparently is in Battlefield (I started drifting away from Battlefield/CoD after Modern Warfare 1 anyway), I posted this suggestion because I believe it will improve the game.

[Obstruction]

i think i replied pretty clearly that i disagree. i'm hopeful that this response clarifies that. i'm certain that i understand, and that i think it is a terrible suggestion.

in the interest of full disclosure, i don't play Battlefield either. however, i'm aware that they use both fixed wing and helicopter flight models; evidence of this can be found in abundant youtube tutorial videos.

these flight models are also used in every other war game that features flight, including so many titles that it would be impractical to list them here. in fact, so far the only future release that includes anything but these two standard models is Star Citizen, which is years from fruition and also highly anticipated by many of the top pilots in Planetside 2.

what you suggest in the original post above, is to take something that is thus far unique in gaming and ruin or otherwise water it down to the point of being beyond recognition.

however, in an attempt to build a robust discussion about different, more traditional flight models, i then made a counter-suggestion. i feel as though fixed wing flight could have a place in planetside 2, and be competitive with the idealized VTOL spacecraft we have now, assuming they meet the certain criteria listed in my response above. furthermore i feel that such a craft could fill a niche separate from, but complementary to other planetside 2 aircraft, if handled properly and carefully balanced. this was my attempt to reconcile the original post's apparent desire to include fixed wing flight in planetside 2 with my (well informed) opinion that the original suggestions are very bad ideas.

again it is my hope that this clarifies any misunderstanding.

[Oracen]

Obstruction, you could have it be a VTOL but with very weak hover, making it incredibly vulnerable during takeoff/landing, and any attempt to hoverspam meaning instant death by dumbfire. No AB hover multiplier or anything like that, hover would strictly be for takeoff, landing and rearm.

I don't think you'd want a 2-person craft, especially with bomb bays and 350+ KPH speed. That's simply asking for trouble and to make the Lib less useful than it currently is. How I'd do it is a fast, ESF sized craft (but markedly different design) with a nosegun only. Has a large resistance to lockons (almost to the point of impossibility) but is weak to ground-based flak fire. Would be a nuisance to Gals and Libs, but deadly to ESFs...who would, in turn, be buffed in ground resistance and be used for ground support, brawling and gal/lib hunting. They'd be vulnerable to interceptor craft though, so would need to use terrain to their advantage. The ESF flight model is unique and fun, but the fact that it's so good against ground is hurting any attempt to balance it.