"Which Base(s) Need A Rework The Most?" - ReachCast Episode 51 CQ

ReachCast · 2013-09-10, 11:06 AM

This weeks question is ...

“Which base(s) do you think needs to be reworked the most and how?”

as always if you would like to call or email in your answer below is that info

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Hirvox · 2013-09-10, 12:19 PM

I assume the whole of Amerish is a given, because it still hasn't received it's Lattice rework and the accompanying base overhaul?

Quartz Ridge Camp. The southern side turrets might not exist at all, because they can be targeted and destroyed from Hvar, way beyond their maximum vertical turning angles. And attacking from the north is so costly on vehicle resources that the tidebreaking wave of enemies usually arrives from the southeast. The best way of attacking a base shouldn't require borderline abuse of game physics.

I'd also nominate Abandoned NS Offices. I can't recall any a battle where the tide was turned there. Like Quartz Ridge, this base wasn't touched at all in the Lattice overhaul. It has one of the least defensible spawn rooms in the game, with the enemy vehicles being able to shell it with impunity from one side, while the enemy infantry can trivially implement a kill zone on the other side. On the other hand, all those vehicles parked outside are most easily destroyed from either Mao Southeast Gate or from Howling Pass Checkpoint, which both have clear visibility to Abandoned NS Offices. The best way to defend Abandoned NS offices is to abandon it and regroup at the neighboring bases.

Carbon Copied · 2013-09-10, 04:31 PM

They need to get the main ones right first you can't overhaul the minor ones until the big ones are flowing properly or you're forever moving the goal posts as you make little changes and chasing catch 22. Forget how the smaller ones play out for the moment, focus on the Bio Labs, Amps, Techs and just what is connecting to them. If they can't get these centre pieces right then they truly do want this to be a game with no more depth than team deathmatch; and thus should market as such.

Bio Labs:
Increase the size of them by about x1.75 they simply won't support the number of players that will be landing on them if we ever get to continental lattice stage - they're struggling now with lattice alone. Give me something interesting like using up the space underneath to fight up to the main structure level or vary it where the ones on Esamir are maybe at ground level and are rooted below the surface.

Tech Plants:
MASSIVE amount of work required (probably read better as "a fuck load" in more blunt terms). Poor objective, defensive and spawn locations. Unused real estate. Make little sense laid out. Collection of huts with one big hangar in the middle; looks impressive, really isn't.

Amp stations:
Least amount of work required but required none the less. Pretty much Figment's diagram of yester month explains what needs to happen here.

Miscellaneous:
Jump pads, teleporters and the long gravity lifts can be told to fuck off back to Unreal Tournament; I love that game and they belong there but I have that in my collection already. Give me something vaguely interesting; something where I don't fly through the air to be mown down because a design choice combined with awful hit box and sync kills me, that's not a retarded slow ascent choke point onto a platform of camped death and not a "peek a boo I've just appeared fired and vanished again" capsule of boring lazy design. To me they just say "couldn't be bothered, it was easier to do" when it comes to world design.

Plenty of topics on spawn rooms so no need to go into it too much but it's clearly a topic thats regularly beaten and similar conclusions occur.

Timealude · 2013-09-10, 04:42 PM

I wouldnt want to name a single outpost but I feel that all the tech plants need redo. Its simply too easy to lock people down in these bases and I feel that the over all layout is just too small for infantry.

I also feel that they need to lengthen the Biolabs capture timers just a bit more. It makes it pretty much impossible to defend if you have a big enough force. You can throw 3 people at each point and pretty much make the generator and SCU pointless since you will just cap the base in 2 minutes.

Timealude · 2013-09-10, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Carbon Copied

Miscellaneous:
Jump pads, teleporters and the long gravity lifts can be told to fuck off back to Unreal Tournament; I love that game and they belong there but I have that in my collection already. Give me something vaguely interesting; something where I don't fly through the air to be mown down because a design choice combined with awful hit box and sync kills me, that's not a retarded slow ascent choke point onto a platform of camped death and not a "peek a boo I've just appeared fired and vanished again" capsule of boring lazy design. To me they just say "couldn't be bothered, it was easier to do" when it comes to world design.

The thing is without these we would have to have choke points as any other way would cause them to be natural ones rather then artificial ones. The only way I could think of something that isnt a grav lift teleporter or a jump pad are stair cases and that would just be horrible to attack against. Defending would be no problem especially with lasher spam or rocket spam.

Carbon Copied · 2013-09-10, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Timealude

The thing is without these we would have to have choke points as any other way would cause them to be natural ones rather then artificial ones. The only way I could think of something that isnt a grav lift teleporter or a jump pad are stair cases and that would just be horrible to attack against. Defending would be no problem especially with lasher spam or rocket spam.

It's a fair point but it's not like you can effectively combine the current systems with things like a Gal drop to cause issues because where do you land... on the choke point everyone else is having to use anyway. Corridors / ramps / stair cases / rooms when used properly give the attack push and defense pull of a base battle a footing to work from and to. These shouldn't have to be tight PS1 style corridors (they can't be with the amount of explosives) to work - as an attacker you should have that ace up the sleeve (something like the gal drop) to cause that additional issue and get people in.

Edit: This is also where bases should get their quirks; hackable doors, lockable doors these aren't objectives per se but they're key things to utilize in getting the job done from both an attack and defend stand point - you talk about rocket spam but find the enemies cut you off and sealed you in because you were too busy shooting up the place... I do wonder though if weapons can be moderated to what area they're in: I mean make up some lore friendly "Nanite systems built in a compound explosive inhibitor" and you've got to fight it up - makes sense to me if these are crucial installations.

Obstruction · 2013-09-10, 05:32 PM

all of them. redesign the spawn system and look over the lattice versus hex arguments. put more spawn control in the hands of players. reduce lattice links to facilities and large outposts, and reimplement/rework the influence system, so that small outposts aren't always zerged and mean something on the large scale without being whack a mole.

bpostal · 2013-09-10, 05:54 PM

Most every base needs some work at least, the few bases that need it the most though are the newer ones on Esamir. The walls are great and all, but we need stairs/lifts and merlons and all sorts of shit for them to really work.

JonLeePettimore · 2013-09-10, 06:19 PM

I'd like to see the Warp Gates on Indar fixed.

I can't say for certain how the situation is on other servers, but for Waterson there is a large group of player who will forth faction into which ever faction holds the northern Warp Gate on the continent.

It does seem like there is a distinct advantage in terms of game play, at least from an anecdotal approach, as well for those that hold the northern gate. I've heard dozens of reasons why, some of them more compelling than others. But I'd like SOE to look into it, and rehash part, or possibly all, of the entire system.

I'm sure better minds than mine could come up with other alternatives, but the two that strike me are; redesign the map, and future maps, away from the square style they are now and redevelop them to favor three factions equally (or at least less blatantly favoring one), or they need to reconstruct the lattice for Indar.

Obviously, a redesign is a massive overhaul. But the second option, the reconstruction of the lattice, is a chance for that system to shine, because it could be done relatively easily, and would allow for new approaches and strategies to develop in its wake.

AThreatToYou · 2013-09-10, 07:11 PM

ALL. Move spawns underground. Add small underground network. Make spawn tubes destructible.

With that aside, I will second Abandoned NS Offices. Base is stupid broken.

GreyFrog · 2013-09-10, 08:03 PM

Bases are shite in general, the bigger the base the more you notice the poor design, with Quartz Ridge and Abandoned Offices being noticeable exceptions.

I'm just adding my +1 here, but Tech Plants/Biolabs/Amp Stations lack any decent mechanic to make battles varied. Hackable doors/shields, landing pads only gals can get to, properly defensible underground passages both attackers and defenders have access to.

If only there was a game much like PS2 that the devs could take inspiration from, jazz it up and deliver something special.

camycamera · 2013-09-10, 08:55 PM

every base that has a spawn room in them, because we need da PS1 spawn rooms man.

Tamyrlin · 2013-09-10, 10:17 PM

Remove some of the walls from Esamir.

Since they put walls everywhere I avoid my previous favorite continent as much as I can. Why does all bases have to be the same, can't there be some with walls and some without?

Timithos · 2013-09-11, 05:35 PM

Every base needs a redesign. We need actual defensible bases where a smaller force can overcome overwhelming odds. Esamir bases are only a step in the right direction.

They don't have to implement everything below so that bases are TOO defensible, but when in Planetside 2's history have we EVER been in danger of that?!? NEVER!

eSports has been quarantined safely inside Nexus Battlegrounds. There is no longer any need for eSports to wreck base design and turn this game into SteamRollSide any more. Playing in an airsoft/paintball arena where a facility is nothing but obstacles advantageous to both sides is no fun.

All spawn rooms need to be sunken underground and/or enveloped inside of other buildings.

Every spawn room at every base needs a minimum of 3 egress points via tunnels and teleporters with exits that are greater then 100 meters apart from each other. This includes the elevator up through the roof of sunken spawn rooms. So a small outpost gets 3 widely spread, advantageous egress points, and a major base gets 6+.

NO MORE GHOSTCAPPING! You cannot flip a point and leave. Attackers have to stay on the capture point, or it will revert back to the facility owners. A solo player can no longer capture an A-B-C or A-B-C-D base!

Make the capture point radius twice as large for the defenders as it is for the attackers.

All teleporter locations needs to get you at MINIMUM 50% closer to the objective, i.e., a capture point. (No off to the side so you try to attack the capture point at a different angle. Or not that huge fail on Esamir where the teleporter only puts you 1/5 of the way closer to the capture point.)

Every base needs tunnel options along side a teleporter options.

We need more catwalks/stairs/stacked crates/elevators on the defender side only of walls.

We need clearer pathways for the defenders near the spawn rooms to capture points, generators, equipment terminals - not walls and boulders that block the path for defenders, and they have to spend time going around the other way.

Only infiltrators should be able to overload generators (not 5 classes against 1 defending engineer class!)

Infiltrators have to face the generator when overloading it with a limited arc of motion and can't arm themselves 360 degrees anymore.

An infiltrator overload takes just as long (or longer!) then it takes for an engineer to repair. Multiple infiltrators can speed the process.

Attacking players cannot see which generators are pulsing due to being overloaded, and once the overload is in place, they cannot see a timer! (Only facility owning defenders get this data!)

Bring back 0/6 to 6/6 capture point mechanics!

Defending engineers can deploy and man a turret at a capture point and count as being on the point. (Attackers cannot!)

Defending max's while accompanying any other non-Max class ally can count on the capture point. (Attacker MAX's cannot!)

********

When bases are defensible, THEN you can do some cool things for attackers. Like:

Ammo towers can be hacked by by infiltrators.

Teleporters, shields, and even spawn tubes have a layered generator/control terminal hack/destroy increased meta game added.

Destructible/repairable wall sections.