Why are harassers in the game?

[War Barney]

I'm sure everybody who doesn't love to get kills that require no skill has thought this at some point, why exactly is there a vehicle that takes a similar number of hits to a tank to die deals similar damage to a tank but moves at 10x the speed and has a very quick regen while moving?

This seems like a huge oversight, its obviously incredibly unbalanced and just plain irritating and yet its still in the game. I know some people will try to say *oh but its so hard to use them well, they only move so fast its nigh on impossible to hit them with the ability to regen hp and taking multiple hits from a tank to die, if you sit still for 20s you might die!*, of course we all know they are just trying to stop the most ridiculous thing being fixed or removed.

One idea to left it stay in the game is make it so only machine guns can be used as the weapon and have it be blown up in 1 C4 and 1 (perhaps 2) hits from a tank. That way it would keep its job as a dangerous anti-infantry vehicle but wouldn't be the most ridiculously OP monster in the world in all but very enclosed spaces.

[Calista]

Oh don't worry it will get nerfed soon. The other night T-Ray said they were working on 4 new vehicles so I am sure the new ones will get all the love (for at least a little while anyway).

[bpostal]

You seem angry about something. Could it be because you don't realize that SOE has already mentioned that Harassers are going to get a balance pass?

Besides, any vehicle that requires two or more people to operate should be the better vehicle. It's about rewarding teamwork.

This is why a lib is better than an ESF at bombing stuff (or should be if it isn't), the Prowler should be better than the lightning (or should be if it isn't) and the Harasser should, in my mind, be simultaneously the best and worse ground vehicle in the game currently. If there's no coordination between the driver and gunner, it deserves to get taken out by a flash (or something equally stupid) and if the driver and gunner are well coordinated, it should be able to destroy a one man Prowler (or the like).

[VikingKong]

Originally Posted by bpostal

This is why a lib is better than an ESF at bombing stuff

Or because it's a bomber...

[bpostal]

Originally Posted by VikingKong

Or because it's a bomber...

/facepalm

[TheDrone]

Continually introducing new "content" is done because PS2 is a themepark mmo, not a sandbox.

The game grows stale quickly for a lot of people, save for a small niche, so SOE is forced to introduce novelties.

Inevitably these will be unbalanced at start and require a few balance-passes to get right.

This means the game will be perpetually unbalanced.

[War Barney]

if a harasser could just take out a prowler id be much happier but i constantly see them dancing among tanks taking tons of them out and of course as they often last for hours killing tons of tanks before being taken out the timer is always finished for a new one by the time they do die so the come right back out again

[Wahooo]

The only issues with harassers is that the concept of "sidegrades" failed. The composite armor needs to severely nerf the speed and handling as the protection levels up.

There is nothing wrong with a highly mobile glass cannon, and i've killed more engies repairing in the backseat than I have harassers themselves actually.

But the surviveability increase from composite armor with not down side to the fastest and best handling vehicle is a bad thing. I was hoping the success of the harasser would highlight to the devs that a dedicated driver/gunner CAN be fun and CAN be powerful. If MBTs had driver/gunner combo the nerf needed to the harasser's speed/handling with increased composite armor would be a bit less.

[Eggy]

Originally Posted by Wahooo

The only issues with harassers is that the concept of "sidegrades" failed. The composite armor needs to severely nerf the speed and handling as the protection levels up.

Why? None of the other upgrades do this.
Adding blockade armour to sunderers has zero effect on its handling and manouverability.

The only problem with harrasers currently is 1 man MBTs.
If noone could pull a 1 person MBT from a vehicle term harrasers wouldnt get this much hate.
As Wahoo pointed out. If the MBT was a dedicated driver vehicle it would be much easier to use and it could also be buffed to be slightly better than it is now. The rear armour weakness could also be removed.

Any 2/2 tank team that looses consistently to a harraser in a 1V1 fight needs to look at there tank tactics.

Any group of players in any combination of vehicles that loose to a single harrasser as the OP suggests just need to prioritise targets and learn to hit stuff.

1 full volley from any MBT main gun and a shot(halberd/enforcer/saron) or partial clip(bassalisk/kobalt/vulcan) and a max composite harrasers is toast.

A single infantry trooper with an SMG or HMG can also take off a large chunk of HP.

If they get nerfed too much it will just be bad for the game. All those 2 man teams will become a combination of 1 person MBTs or just quit. Niether option is good for vehicle play.

Regarding the timers, its exactly the same for MBTs except for again the 1 person problem.
With a max(or close to it) certed harraser timer. its somewhere in the region of 5-7 mins. BUT most harrasers are 2/2 and it doesnt take a genius to know they just swap, even if they are insta gibbed. So an almost constant stream of harrasers is possible.

This is not possible if your 1 manning an MBT. You have to have some down time even if you have a max certed timer.

The OPs suggestion of MBTs 1 or 2 shotting harrasers also makes zero sense.
The 1 man MBT has 50% of its functional seats occupied. The pilot made a decision to pull that vehilce and not have a gunner.
The harraser has 2 functional seats occupied, AND the driver has NO acess to a gun.
How is it fair for the 1 person half empty vehicle to 1 shot the other? Its not.

Its allready getting its C4 resistance removed and is going to take more damage from vehicle mounted main cannon AV at close range. Any more than this and the vehcile becomes useless and wont get pulled.

Lets also not forget we were promised Empire Specifc Buggies so you should excpect even more OP weapons and OP specail abilities.
When IM in vehicle mode my time is spent equaly between harrasers and prowlers with a little bit in a skyguard and for the most part I dont find harrasers to be a problem.
Unless they get the drop or are working in packs and im outnumbered. In both those scenarious I deserved to die and would of even if the harrasers were some other vehicle.

[War Barney]

A more OP vehicle is not an answer its a horrible horrible thing. Wahoo is indeed right that the issue is (as I also said) that the harasser not only has insane damage and speed but great survivability. There should be the option of speed or defence not both.

And stop with the *but sunderer* cos last time I checked the sunderer wasn't going around at 200mph blowing up tanks being a small great handle vehicle. It takes about 5 tanks trying to kill a harasser to get it, and even then its more just cos with that many the blind luck you need to hit is more likely to pay off and get you the kill

[typhaon]

Originally Posted by Eggy

Why? None of the other upgrades do this.
Adding blockade armour to sunderers has zero effect on its handling and manouverability.

The only problem with harrasers currently is 1 man MBTs.
If noone could pull a 1 person MBT from a vehicle term harrasers wouldnt get this much hate.
As Wahoo pointed out. If the MBT was a dedicated driver vehicle it would be much easier to use and it could also be buffed to be slightly better than it is now. The rear armour weakness could also be removed.

Any 2/2 tank team that looses consistently to a harraser in a 1V1 fight needs to look at there tank tactics.

Any group of players in any combination of vehicles that loose to a single harrasser as the OP suggests just need to prioritise targets and learn to hit stuff.

1 full volley from any MBT main gun and a shot(halberd/enforcer/saron) or partial clip(bassalisk/kobalt/vulcan) and a max composite harrasers is toast.

A single infantry trooper with an SMG or HMG can also take off a large chunk of HP.

If they get nerfed too much it will just be bad for the game. All those 2 man teams will become a combination of 1 person MBTs or just quit. Niether option is good for vehicle play.

Regarding the timers, its exactly the same for MBTs except for again the 1 person problem.
With a max(or close to it) certed harraser timer. its somewhere in the region of 5-7 mins. BUT most harrasers are 2/2 and it doesnt take a genius to know they just swap, even if they are insta gibbed. So an almost constant stream of harrasers is possible.

This is not possible if your 1 manning an MBT. You have to have some down time even if you have a max certed timer.

The OPs suggestion of MBTs 1 or 2 shotting harrasers also makes zero sense.
The 1 man MBT has 50% of its functional seats occupied. The pilot made a decision to pull that vehilce and not have a gunner.
The harraser has 2 functional seats occupied, AND the driver has NO acess to a gun.
How is it fair for the 1 person half empty vehicle to 1 shot the other? Its not.

Its allready getting its C4 resistance removed and is going to take more damage from vehicle mounted main cannon AV at close range. Any more than this and the vehcile becomes useless and wont get pulled.

Lets also not forget we were promised Empire Specifc Buggies so you should excpect even more OP weapons and OP specail abilities.
When IM in vehicle mode my time is spent equaly between harrasers and prowlers with a little bit in a skyguard and for the most part I dont find harrasers to be a problem.
Unless they get the drop or are working in packs and im outnumbered. In both those scenarious I deserved to die and would of even if the harrasers were some other vehicle.

So... basically you're TR and don't find Harassers a problem. What a surprise!

If you'd just put that at the start of your post you could've saved us all some time!

[AThreatToYou]

Originally Posted by War Barney

if a harasser could just take out a prowler id be much happier but i constantly see them dancing among tanks taking tons of them out and of course as they often last for hours killing tons of tanks before being taken out the timer is always finished for a new one by the time they do die so the come right back out again

Then you drive one, see if you can pull that off yourself.

[War Barney]

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

Then you drive one, see if you can pull that off yourself.

You realise this is the weakest excuse ever right? my ability with a harasser after having not used it doesn't make it ok that its OP as hell with a bit of practise.

theres a difference between needing to practise to do well and needing to practise to be a OP god nothing can stop. One is ok the other isn't.

[AThreatToYou]

Originally Posted by War Barney

You realise this is the weakest excuse ever right? my ability with a harasser after having not used it doesn't make it ok that its OP as hell with a bit of practise.

theres a difference between needing to practise to do well and needing to practise to be a OP god nothing can stop. One is ok the other isn't.

It is indeed OK for something to be powerful when it takes 2 or 3 skilled players to operate it. Can a Harasser take out three Powlers, Vanguards, or Magriders who are all focused on it, with equal practice put into their vehicles?

I think the answer is simply no. If it was a 1-man vehicle at its current power level, it would be a serious issue, but when you sacrifice two or three players for it... it needs compensation.

On that note, could a Harasser do jack shit to 2-3 ESFs gunning for it? No. The Harasser is fucked.

Maybe you could call foul on the resource costs and cool downs of a Harasser. That's OK. Asking for a raw nerf to the unit itself seems to me a degenerate way of handling the issue.

[Mastachief]

The harasser as a vehicle is perfect.

The weapons are slightly too powerful but the important word here is slightly. Also the 3rd seat repairing can go but only if they leave the armour as it is.

2 or more person vehicles are are the best types. Solo tanks should fear them.