The resource system (planned revamp, ideas)

Babyfark McGeez · 2013-11-19, 11:56 AM

So, since the servers are still down, where do we go from here on?
I know the next big thing we desperately need is intercontinental warfare, but aside from "do et now!" and the questions how fighting for a WG and locking yes/no should work there is not really that much to say about it.

But then there is also this "resource revamp" i heard about.

So will the resource revamp be coming in a specified amount of time? Or will it be "soon"?
And what exactly are they planning to "revamp" here? Just the personal resources to acquire stuff? Or a "RTS" style resource system on a faction-wide basis with bases having resource pools, ANT runs and resource acquiring?
And what would you like to see?

To get things started, i would love as much "RTS" mechanics in this as possible, bases with resource pools that need to be refilled (maybe main bases having those pools and needing to be refilled from outposts), ANT runs, all that offers more variety in gameplay and makes you more immersed in a concerted war effort.
I am not sure how far that could work with PS2s maps and gameplay though.

Bocheezu · 2013-11-19, 04:30 PM

I don't know if it's RTS-ish mechanics; my understanding was they wanted to have resource nodes outside the bases that were necessary for powering said bases. I don't see that as a race for nodes like in an RTS, but more like a constant struggle for resource nodes. Concept seems more like capture-the-flag to me in a lot of ways; if you control the node, you can just keep taking the flag back over and over again (ANT runs).

Eggy · 2013-11-19, 04:50 PM

The resources you use for purchasing vehicles and stuff will be gone/altered. All vehicle timers are being removed and timer certs refunded.

There will be "power nodes" all over the maps, linked to the bases acting as "power".

Doing "stuff" at the base will reduce the power level, at some low level "stuff" stops working.

You can recharge the "power" by doing ANT runs.

They do not yet know if the ANT will be a new vehicle, an addon for an existing vehicle or an addon for a new vehicle.

The power nodes will be different sizes depening on what they power, requiring more power to fill them up.

This could be from multiple small ANTs or one big one.

The WarpGate will act as a "trickle charger" supplying a small amount of power to itself and all ajoining hexes.
Aiding a gated empire to push out.

The "mission system" will auto create both "attack the ANT run" and "defend the ANT run" missions.

Some of the "power sources" will be in areas of the maps that currently do not see much action, in order to facilitate big vehicle VS vehicle battles at those places and away from bases. Like on the Esamir ICE for example.

Mightymouser · 2013-11-19, 04:59 PM

Oh dear; I don't like the sound of that at all... A common resource pool, shared by the whole empire and usable by anyone was tried in PS1, and they took it out for good reason; it is way too easy to exploit/grief; at best leaves it experienced players at the mercy of wasteful less experienced players, who wantonly burn resources at critical times with no intention of renewing them.

Stick with a common draining algorithm based on clear and defined parameters (e.g., the repair systems in PS1). I love the idea of ANTs, and the draining strategies that come with them, but a common resource pool is a bad idea that was tried and failed…

bpostal · 2013-11-19, 05:01 PM

Here's the bit I've found on PSU (with a link to the resource revamp via the Official forums)

http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=56046

Another link would be http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=56156
Which, in turn, links to the FNO episode that talks about some particulars.

If you want real, solid details though, you'll have to ask Malorn. (Probably in person, over drinks that you've paid for, after a nice meal)

Now you know as much as I do, which isn't all that much, hope it helps!

GeoGnome · 2013-11-19, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Babyfark McGeez

So, since the servers are still down, where do we go from here on?
I know the next big thing we desperately need is intercontinental warfare, but aside from "do et now!" and the questions how fighting for a WG and locking yes/no should work there is not really that much to say about it.

But then there is also this "resource revamp" i heard about.

So will the resource revamp be coming in a specified amount of time? Or will it be "soon"?
And what exactly are they planning to "revamp" here? Just the personal resources to acquire stuff? Or a "RTS" style resource system on a faction-wide basis with bases having resource pools, ANT runs and resource acquiring?
And what would you like to see?

To get things started, i would love as much "RTS" mechanics in this as possible, bases with resource pools that need to be refilled (maybe main bases having those pools and needing to be refilled from outposts), ANT runs, all that offers more variety in gameplay and makes you more immersed in a concerted war effort.
I am not sure how far that could work with PS2s maps and gameplay though.

The basics of the resource system as I understand it (Though that isn't enough for Mightymouser most days, so expect this to all be "Hogwash"), is as follows

Resources for each person will depend on the % of raw materials left in the silo
The silos are filled by Sundy's equipped with an Ant module
To get resources in the ant, the sundy will have to travel to fixed locations or randomly spawning resource drops to pick up resources and bring them back to the Ammo tower (Which now doubles as the silo)
The rate at which resources leave the silo are based on the number of people respawning at a base
The rates will be tiered, so when there are 1-12 people present it wont drain as fast as when there is 45+ people respawning at that base
Spawning vehicles doesn't drain from the main silo (By my understanding) the drain all comes from the number of people respawning
Your personal resources are going to have a fast recharge, but a small cap. So you will get resources quicker, but you can drain them very fast
If you own, spawn, or sit in a vehicle, you contribute to that vehicle's maintenance, so it takes a chunck out of your personal resources
You can pull as many vehicles as you want, but each you pull will continue to cut into your resource score, until you are incapable of spawning another, until some of the ones you spawned are destroyed
Your sunderer can take resources from enemy resource silos
Resources are local, not world wide. So if you have resources one place and leave, you wont have the resources anymore.
If you are an attacker, your resources are tied to the nearest connected friendly base. So If I am attacking Quartz Ridge from the south, my resources will be linked to the resource silo at Hvar South gate.

I am uncertain if it is Respawns, or if it's just the Number of people present... or what, that really wasn't specified if I recall correctly, but the idea here is to prevent one person pulling a tank, from causing another person to be prevented from respawning.

They are talking about neutral bases, but we never got a firm yay or nay on that one.

As to your original point, personally I am looking forward much more to the resource revamp than I am the continental lattice. Not because I don't want the continental lattice, but I see the resource revamp being much more important to bringing people back, and providing the game with a much needed energy.

Mightymouser · 2013-11-19, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by GeoGnome

The basics of the resource system as I understand it (Though that isn't enough for Mightymouser most days, so expect this to all be "Hogwash")

All I ask if that you use a rational basis test in your reasoning; if that's too much for you, I understand, but the result will be that you occasionally spout hogwash.

GeoGnome · 2013-11-19, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Mightymouser

All I ask if that you use a rational basis test in your reasoning; if that's too much for you, I understand, but the result will be that you occasionally spout hogwash.

Dude, something I had absolutely no knowledge of because I wasn't here during Beta. Asking that I possess knowledge I was never exposed to isn't a reasonable request. Or do you assume people to know everything of the game that you do? I sure don't, hence why I wrote my first post. If I hear something, that is what I go by.

What I have above is again, information I got from the devs in many many interviews on the subject. I have absolutely no way of supporting any of it. I am sure someone can interpret reasoning for why some of this doesn't make sense or that it has some ulterior motive behind all of it, but frankly I am just here to report what I hear and see.

No one wants the information, people would prefer I agree with them regardless of what is said. When I step outside of that, I'm either a mouthpiece for SOE or a callous ass who has no support for the game depending on the person I'm talking to, so I see zero point in assuming the motives and goals of people who I will likely never meet face to face.

Mightymouser · 2013-11-19, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by GeoGnome

Dude, something I had absolutely no knowledge of because I wasn't here during Beta. Asking that I possess knowledge I was never exposed to isn't a reasonable request. Or do you assume people to know everything of the game that you do? I sure don't, hence why I wrote my first post. If I hear something, that is what I go by.

What I have above is again, information I got from the devs in many many interviews on the subject. I have absolutely no way of supporting any of it. I am sure someone can interpret reasoning for why some of this doesn't make sense or that it has some ulterior motive behind all of it, but frankly I am just here to report what I hear and see.

No one wants the information, people would prefer I agree with them regardless of what is said. When I step outside of that, I'm either a mouthpiece for SOE or a callous ass who has no support for the game depending on the person I'm talking to, so I see zero point in assuming the motives and goals of people who I will likely never meet face to face.

One last comment, and then this thread can get back on the rails.

I don't expect you to possess knowledge you weren't exposed to, nor do I expect you to know everything about the game in all its various stages. I don't think anyone can claim such encyclopedic knowledge of an enterprise as vast as the PS franchise.

Nor do I hold you responsible for interpreting and parsing every communication SOE puts out. However, if your function is purely to report what the dev's say, then you must accept and understand that when the dev's spout nonsense, you will be doing likewise. My first response to you in the other thread was directed, not at your interpretation of the dev's remarks, but at the dev's remarks themselves. I know they've touted the 'resources' line in the past, and that's what I was calling hogwash. And I'll note that from my first post on through, I pointed to the reason for my conclusion being evidence we'd seen from actual in game footage.

It wasn't until your second response (here I mean post #93) when your response was pure snark, that I responded in kind.

I don't mind if you just put forward pure unadulterated information from the devs, but you shouldn't mind when, on occasions that the dev's are putting out crap, I call them on it.

At any rate, we've monopolized this thread enough; now back to the resource system...

typhaon · 2013-11-19, 07:00 PM

It's the "end game" stupid.

That should be SOE's motto. Resource revamp is fine and may improve some aspect of the game, but it's not going to be a major driver to bring back old, or bring in new players.

People will be excited when this game offers more than a monotonous cert grind and bases that switch hands 25 times/day.

Similar to a lot of the base revamps, they are generally nice and an improvement... but nobody is charging back to the game because of a new spawn location or a few extra barrels.

Wahooo · 2013-11-19, 07:34 PM

Resource revamp is good... BUT... there are major issues here.

I am a PS1 fan. I wanted Nanites, and was on the train a year and a half ago that was sad there would be no ANTs in PS2 and was one of 'those guys' that called Higby an idiot for saying that no one would want to drive the ANT it is boring and not fun.

HOWEVER,

This game has changed and currently the biggest issues with the proposed resource changes is that it will be too hard to control with how broken the bases are as far as defense AND how many bases there are.

On PS1 the bases were bunches more defensible. One way to break down the stalemate of a long siege AND something that added excitement to the whole battle was that tug-O-war with draining resources and bringing in that ANT and trying to prolong the defense. The other thing was the XP from, after clearing a few bases or a continent the logistics of getting ANTs to those 2 or 3 or MAYBE at worst 9 bases that needed the help, going for the lowest first, using command chat.

I want ANTS, I want resources to matter but not be a punishment. BUT I don't want to break defense of bases even more, and I don't want to move back to what-a-mole type game play where a few responders end up spending an hour and a half running ANTs around to inconsequential bases just because there resources are getting low.

Progression.

We STILL need more defensible bases in a lot of cases, and fewer bases or remove the satellites bases around the major bio/tech/amp stations from the lattice, give them their own resource pool or some such, or make them stop functioning if the main base loses their resource pool but have them NOT draw from the main base... I dunno SOMETHING to limit the number of places you need to ANT.