Equipping MBT's with all 3 AV,AI and AA

capiqu · 2013-11-21, 03:59 PM

It would be better to be able to load MBT's with 3 guns. This would allow tanks to carry Anti Vehicle, Anti Air and Anti Infantry at once. It should also be possible to load any other combination of guns. This could be done by adding a third gun and gunner or in the current 2 man MBT form, by having the driver and second gunner switch between guns.

Thoughts?

maradine · 2013-11-21, 04:14 PM

Give every equipped secondary a complimentary co-axial Ranger.

Selerox · 2013-11-21, 04:17 PM

I don't mean to sound harsh, but that's an appalling idea.

No unit of any kind should be strong against all forms of opponent at once. That's the fundamental principal of balance. A unit needs a weakness.

MBTs are already too powerful in certain situations, the last thing the game needs is a unit that kill anything.

If you want a dedicated infantry-killing tank, then you sacrifice killing power against vehicles.

If you want a dedicated vahicle-killing tank, then you sacrifice killing power against infantry.

If you want a dedicated anti-air tank, then you man up and get a Skyguard.

That's how it should work. The wheels come off the balance train when an MBT has a high level of killing power against more than one type of unit. It's been argued (and I tend to agree with it) that Vulcan Prowlers fit that category at the moment.

Taramafor · 2013-11-21, 05:13 PM

So... You want to give an already powerful unit even more power? What, shields and a big gun not enough for you?

It's a tank that's good at what it does. Being a tank against ground units. If it has 2 guns then it should have a damage nerf on the main gun (or forgo shield). If it has 3 weapons (which it should not due to what Selerox said) then it better have no shields and have paper thin armor or have weak weapons to compensate for the multiple sources of damage output, making it a tank that is no longer a MBT.

AThreatToYou · 2013-11-21, 05:26 PM

For our current WWII / Korean War / Vietnam style warfare, this makes sense.

I suggests it this way:
Dedicated Driver controls forward machine-gun that is used against infantry (Magrider in PS1 had this)
Main gunner controls, well, the main gun
Third gunner controls on-top machinegun that is used against aircraft, infantry, and light vehicles

Sounds a lot like the PS1 prowler

KarrdeBRBU · 2013-11-21, 05:32 PM

Tanks don't need to be better. Players need to be better. And run tanks in organized and communicating groups. With a repair or ammo sundy and a skyguard. This is not a hard task. Also practice nailing ESFs and Libs with the AV main gun. Really messes them up.

camycamera · 2013-11-21, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

For our current WWII / Korean War / Vietnam style warfare, this makes sense.

I suggests it this way:
Dedicated Driver controls forward machine-gun that is used against infantry (Magrider in PS1 had this)
Main gunner controls, well, the main gun
Third gunner controls on-top machinegun that is used against aircraft, infantry, and light vehicles

Sounds a lot like the PS1 prowler

^ dedicated seats for tanks.... oh, we can only dream.

HereticusXZ · 2013-11-21, 06:11 PM

Three man tank crews... Cannot stress enough, Hell yes! To get into mobile Tank battles rather then just having to slow or stop entirely to fire the main gun... So much want! Tank brawls and duels would be so much more fun!

Three Gunner Positions.... I want it... but... I can see a issue with how zergy some Outfits get with MBT's. The last thing you want is spamming 3 ESW' on a Tank chassis.

I want 3 man tank crews with the dedicated driver, but time will tell what ends up happening.

Three Gunner Positions might be better left for a dedicated NS or ES Heavy Tank that's not so easily massed like the MBT.

KesTro · 2013-11-21, 07:33 PM

That actually is the problem with the game. When something can perform all roles, I'm sorry but it's broken. ESF's suffer from this mechanic, Vulcans, strikers, etc. When something is just so versatile you start to not choose anything else it needs some looking at. This is luckily already happening so I cant' complain too much.

I want to see more rock paper scissors out of PS2 instead of 'everything' in one. "An AV weapon that doubles as AI and AA."

bpostal · 2013-11-21, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by KesTro

That actually is the problem with the game. When something can perform all roles, I'm sorry but it's broken. ESF's suffer from this mechanic, Vulcans, strikers, etc. When something is just so versatile you start to not choose anything else it needs some looking at. This is luckily already happening so I cant' complain too much.

I want to see more rock paper scissors out of PS2 instead of 'everything' in one. "An AV weapon that doubles as AI and AA."

Some of the guys in my outfit refer to this as the 'BR 40 effect'. It cuts down on the need for specialization and in turn, teamwork.
That said, I would love to see a driver/gunner combo for the MBT (more akin to the Vanguard than the Prowler).

AThreatToYou · 2013-11-21, 10:31 PM

Rock-paper-scissors is boring for the individual until we can "return to base" with our tank and whatnot to switch weapons...

blampoet · 2013-11-22, 04:56 AM

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

Rock-paper-scissors is boring for the individual until we can "return to base" with our tank and whatnot to switch weapons...

it's only boring if he's playing alone. (in which case, i hear BS4 has been out for a while

)

what he calls "Rock-paper-scissors" I call "Ecosystem" (predator<herbivore<plant<mud<predator) and i'm one of many people who have been shouting this at the top of our lungs for a while now (i think i'll be calling it RBS from now on as well)

AThreatToYou · 2013-11-22, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by blampoet

it's only boring if he's playing alone. (in which case, i hear BS4 has been out for a while

)

what he calls "Rock-paper-scissors" I call "Ecosystem" (predator<herbivore<plant<mud<predator) and i'm one of many people who have been shouting this at the top of our lungs for a while now (i think i'll be calling it RBS from now on as well)

I accept your point, but my point is we can't switch weapons once we have spawned a vehicle.

My issue is that once I spawn my specialized tank, I can't switch its loadout without spawning a whole new one. I'd accept having to pay a resource cost to switching that loadout, so long as it was cheaper than a whole new tank.

Either way, as I see it the majority of people play PS2 solo. Not asking for a kill everything pwn machine, just asking for a way to be versatile and at least have the ability to change role at any vehicle terminal.

anyhoot now abandoning thread

Plaqueis · 2013-11-22, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Selerox

No unit of any kind should be strong against all forms of opponent at once.

Well, certify an ESF with the best nosegun and lolpods, and its very effective against anything there is... not to even mention the Lib with any belly weapon and good gunner.. apparently your comment only applies to groundbased stuff?

Rolfski · 2013-11-23, 06:49 AM

Sounds like an OP idea to me. This game needs more specialized roles that force teamwork like Skyguards, not I-can-take-on-anything uber-tank-of-death roles.

Tanks are a bit weak and useless atm but giving them an extra gun is not the solution. Instead, I would opt them to become slightly better in their specialized role and give players the option to reequip them.