Let's do 4-way continent locking before battle islands release

[Rolfski]

Disclaimer: This topic is based on the assumption that we have to wait a lot longer after Hossin release before seeing any intercontinental metagame.
I also didn't play PS1, so I don't know how intercontinental systems work in that game.

The latest dev AMA session on reddit felt depressing. Because according to SOE's schedule, with the first new Hossin map out by summer 2014, we're probably not seeing any meaningful game until very late 2014, when we have finally 4 continents plus battle islands and an intercontinental strategic layer in place.
This annoys the heck out of me, seriously. This game has such an amazing and unique strategic potential but the devs seem to have serious problems delivering it in a timely matter. So here's a short cut idea: 4-way continental locking until the battle islands are released.

It looks like this and the arrows show Warpgate connections that can be captured:



How does this work?
When you lock a Warpgate (capturing its surrounding bases) it becomes yours. But here's the twist: The Warpgate connected to it on the other side becomes yours as well PLUS the surrounding bases on that continent. This means the moment you lock a Warpgate, you will instantly gain a foothold with starting bases on the other continent.

Here's how that would look:



Example: TR Indar lock
If TR would capture all bases on Indar it will then flip the connected Warpgates on Esamir, Hossin and Amerish to the TR, PLUS the bases directly linked to it. So for Esamir, TR will automatically get a foothold that consist of the North Western Warpgate PLUS the connecting bases Haven Outpost, Crystal Ridge Comm Array and Palos Solar Array.


Why doing it this way?

• Adding depth while waiting for battles islands not only is a fresh angle for the players, it gives devs a good learning/tweaking ground as well.
• Does not require a Warpgate design overhaul: Deliberately leaving out Warpgates as a contestable place means devs can spend their precious time on more important things.
• This system allows for only one empire to have a continent lock at any given time, which means enough maps for everybody to fight on. With this set up you can be pretty much assured to fight on multiple continents unless you're getting ganged upon.
• It has potential for interesting dynamics. It encourages factions to drive out the "invaders" on their home continent to open up new continents to fight on. While at the same time, it gives options to bring the fight to the enemy doorstep by going "the Hossin route".

Bonus rule: Locking someone's home Warpgate will have these two emirpires switch Warpgates.
People are complaining all the time about not having access to their favourite Warpgate for a long time. Now, you have to fight for it.

[Carbon Copied]

Instantly capping territory on a continent you're not on seems wrong as the opposition could start capping this back before you've even zoned through or simply camp it out leaving a never ending bounce of control over 6 zoning territories? Even worse if populations are skewed it gives the winner; more "win" and initial steam roll momentum surely?

The use of the Sanctuary model ala PS1 battle islands or not should definitely be considered - even if it's a basic cookie cutter muster point like the VR environment in it's initial incarnation.

[Sledgecrushr]

I love the idea Rolfski. All I would do is not give adjacent territory for a warp gate capture. We want to have to fight for every inch of territory.

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

I love the idea Rolfski. All I would do is not give adjacent territory for a warp gate capture. We want to have to fight for every inch of territory.

So how would you do it then?

The whole idea here is to get us already deeper game play when Hossin is released without having to wait another fricking half year for stuff that takes ages to develop like battle islands, Sanctuaries, contestable Warpgates, etc.

The best idea I could come up with to make that happen is instant territory grab on the other side because it has two important advantages:

1. It doesn't change the current Warpgate lock mechanic = no developer effort.
2. It prevents multiple empires to have a lock at the same time. This is an important mechanic because the last thing you want with a 4-way system is for every empire to lock its own home continent, forcing everybody to fight on Hossin all the time.

[Qwan]

Nice idea, but I have would leave the warpgates open. I mean just let the lattice run threw the warpgate to a connected base on the other side. And if you take said base this will stop the enemy from having a link on your continent. More or less like the PS1 capture system when it comes to warpgates.

[ringring]

That's pretty much he PS1 system with the exception of there warpgates didn't have buildings and spawnpoints etc. it was a warpgates and nothing else. What happened was that you simply got a lalink to the warpgate and then to the first connected base that you could then attack.

Instead of warpgates with spawnpoints and terminals we had sanctuaries which still seem to me to be the best idea.

With regard to your lattice you need to consider what happens if and empire is kick out of all continents and back to their initial warpgate. How are they able to fight back.

In ps1 we had sanctuaries and two permanent links to two 'home continents' so at least in the worst case scenarios the empire can fight back on two fronts.

At sometime someone will try to zero base another empire, and at sometime it will happen, probably in low pop times, ie during the early hours. In general this is a good thing, but with too few continents it is also a problem.

[AuntLou]

So here is the deal... you can't have 2 warpgates connected to 1 warpgate.
If you have 2 connecting to 1 then you would have the potential of 2 factions sharing the same warpgate. So here is how I think you would have to do it:



*Each colored(not green) warpgate is a faction's home warpgate.

P.S. I tried to make the continents look like the actual continents in game but I couldn't get them squarer.

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by Qwan

Nice idea, but I have would leave the warpgates open. I mean just let the lattice run threw the warpgate to a connected base on the other side. And if you take said base this will stop the enemy from having a link on your continent. More or less like the PS1 capture system when it comes to warpgates.

How would that work? Let's use the example in this topic: TR captures all connecting bases to the Indar SE Warpgate and thus opens up a lattice connection to Esamir NW Warpgate.

What would happen if you leave these Warpgates open? TR could walk from Indar to Esamir to capture Haven Outpost in order to lock Indar, right? But what could NC do in the meantime? Could they walk over to Indar as well until Haven Outpost is capped? Would they fight TR within the Warpgates? Who gets the spawn within these Warpgates? And what if NC has all surrounding bases capped on Esamir while TR has them capped on Indar? Stalemate? NC and TR camping eachothers exit teleporters?

Originally Posted by ringring

With regard to your lattice you need to consider what happens if and empire is kick out of all continents and back to their initial warpgate. How are they able to fight back.

In ps1 we had sanctuaries and two permanent links to two 'home continents' so at least in the worst case scenarios the empire can fight back on two fronts.

At sometime someone will try to zero base another empire, and at sometime it will happen, probably in low pop times, ie during the early hours. In general this is a good thing, but with too few continents it is also a problem.

I hear you worries, therefore my bonus rule: Home locking causes an instant Warpgate switch between the two empires involved . It could either mean a full territory switch as well or otherwise a reset of some form.
Btw: My experience so far in this game is that it is pretty hard to keep an empire completely locked in his Warpgate. With this new system that would be almost impossible. If in this example TR would home lock NC, it means that the total TR population on that server would be spread out over multiple continents where all of NC population on that server would be at the home Warpgate. They would certainly break out with a huge zerg because they have nowhere to go.

Originally Posted by AuntLou

So here is the deal... you can't have 2 warpgates connected to 1 warpgate.
If you have 2 connecting to 1 then you would have the potential of 2 factions sharing the same warpgate. So here is how I think you would have to do it:

Actually, you can have 2 Warpgates connected to one. The trick is that if a Warpgate gets captured, the other connection to it gets lost. In my example the Esamir NW Warpgate loses its connection with Hossin the moment it gets capped from Indar.

How would your example work btw if we have only three Warpgates per continent?

[AuntLou]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Actually, you can have 2 Warpgates connected to one. The trick is that if a Warpgate gets captured, the other connection to it gets lost. In my example the Esamir NW Warpgate loses its connection with Hossin the moment it gets capped from Indar.

What happens when they are capped at the same time? Why would you want to cap it right before another is about to cap? You want to play the game of WAIT WAIT WAIT don't cap this last base yet cause they are about to take the warpgate so if we take it seconds after it will be ours instead?

Originally Posted by Rolfski

How would your example work btw if we have only three Warpgates per continent?

Devs would have to move/add. If you look at Indar the areas to do such a thing are already in the out of bounds areas.

[Rivenshield]

I still say we need sanctuaries with rotating warp gates. That way we can attack anywhere, at any time. We will have to think strategically. It will be possible to sanc-lock an enemy. It will give us a hidey-hole to retreat, regroup, and counterattack from.

Or we can just go with the same boring game of continental ring-around-the-rosey we have now, with custody of a given warp gate changing hands at regular boring intervals in a regular boring counter-clockwise direction. Introducing a continental lattice is a means to an end, not an end unto itself.

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by AuntLou

What happens when they are capped at the same time? Why would you want to cap it right before another is about to cap? You want to play the game of WAIT WAIT WAIT don't cap this last base yet cause they are about to take the warpgate so if we take it seconds after it will be ours instead?

This idea actually works the other way around and for the better imo. If in this case TR is about to cap Indar, while NC is doing the same on Esamir, they're both going to rush who locks it first. Because if TR locks it first, NC immediately loses 3 bases on Esamir and their locking work has been lost for a big part because they now they have to cap back these 3 bases again.

Devs would have to move/add. If you look at Indar the areas to do such a thing are already in the out of bounds areas.

Besides the question of a complete 3 continent overhaul being realistic (I definitely think it's not), it would defeat the purpose of this whole idea which is getting strategic intercontinental play as soon as possible.

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

I still say we need sanctuaries with rotating warp gates.

Whether Sanctuaries are the best solution or not, we would have to wait at least another year for that to happen. This idea is about adding strategic depth in the meantime.

Introducing a continental lattice is a means to an end, not an end unto itself.

True but the same goes Sanctuaries. I'm just looking for (temporary) solutions to provide us more meaningful Risk-like game play sooner rather than later, which is the core promise of this game that is still not delivered to us.

[Carbon Copied]

Sanctuaries wouldn't really be that much work though would they as mentioned above there is the VR model that could be adjusted in mere minutes (balancing isn't exactly the requirement is it) not a year of "development" to accommodate a warp gate gate zoning spire - 2 break out routes to the accompanying continents have links to the prime warp gate from one and the "hardest" on the other for asymmetrical continent balance cross factions. If they want to rotate the sanctuaries on a per month basis after it'd mean no one empire still gets "the best or worst" warp gate just a change of starting scene.

[AuntLou]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

This idea actually works the other way around and for the better imo. If in this case TR is about to cap Indar, while NC is doing the same on Esamir, they're both going to rush who locks it first. Because if TR locks it first, NC immediately loses 3 bases on Esamir and their locking work has been lost for a big part because they now they have to cap back these 3 bases again.

Lets say TR is about to lock Hossin and NC lock Esamir. Both want to head to Amerish and fight the VS right after. TR locks Hossin first and heads to Amerish. NC now has to recap the bases lost from Hossin capping, takes them 15 minutes and they then cap Esamir. TR looses 3 bases adjacent to a warpgate on Amerish, a continent they just entered 15 minutes earlier, not good. On top of that wouldn't they loose their resource connections?

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Besides the question of a complete 3 continent overhaul being realistic (I definitely think it's not), it would defeat the purpose of this whole idea which is getting strategic intercontinental play as soon as possible.

I think "complete 3 continent overhaul" is quite the exaggeration but yes I agree it would take more time. Considering the time it's taking them to get continents out it might be worth it. It doesn't seem worth the time to you because you favor your idea more obviously.

[Rivenshield]

Originally Posted by Carbon Copied

Sanctuaries wouldn't really be that much work though would they as mentioned above there is the VR model that could be adjusted in mere minutes

Yes, yes, YES. I've been pushing this idea since the VR areas came out. Stick a fixed WG and a rotating WG on it, drop it on a smallish island in the ocean, and call it good.

Originally Posted by Carbon Copied

If they want to rotate the sanctuaries on a per month basis after it'd mean no one empire still gets "the best or worst" warp gate just a change of starting scene.

Hell no. ROTATE THE WARP GATES. That's another proven mechanic that seems to have fallen by the wayside. Rotating WG's let you fight different opponents over the same ground. It also lets you fight them in different directions, thereby making it *new* ground. On top of that, it lets you choose when and where to attack. It forces the zerg to think strategically, which is a helluva lot of fun and part of what makes Planetside a cut above the FPS crowd.

All of which is effectively new content, for free, rather than plodding through gametime as we do now with the same empire perpetually on our right and the same on our left, fighting through the same channels in the same portion of the lattice against the same enemy every. Frigging. TIME. Just in one- or two-month increments.

[Carbon Copied]

I don't know if you read my post wrong Rivenshield but what I was attempting to say is to rotate the starting sanctuaries: thus the initial warp gate links would change regardless because you've "moved".