The real problem with the NC MAX

War Barney · 2014-02-17, 06:41 PM

I was thinking on this today and think I've worked out what the true issue with the NC MAX is!. The problem basically... is teamwork and a complete lack of it. The TR and VS MAX work great by themselves, you don't need to work as a team (though it helps) to get a load of kills and be credit to team as they have range and accuracy. A NC MAX however has almost no range and an ability thats focused on helping out the team so teamwork is vital to do anything.

Basically my thinking is this, the NC MAX was thought up with 1 strategy in mind, the shield wall. Imagine if a platoon got a load of MAXs together forming a long line, a shield wall, and used that to push across terrain it would be a quite effective way of pushing into heavily defended areas and allow our MAX to get into range to use their guns. HOWEVER what normally happens is our MAXs run around solo and if they do try to push they get left alone as nobody else wants to get close to the enemy meaning you die quickly.

There is another problem though of course.. while in a perfect world of team play this would be a quite effective strategy its still only viable in a small number of cases, open terrain ofc its worthless as you will all be shelled to death LONG before you reach anything, and even enclosed bases its risky as it relies on people grouping together making you the ideal target for any of the MANY classes with C4.

So while we end up back in the same old place of the NC MAX being inferior we at least have an idea of how to make them slightly more useful and it becomes more a case of improving on the shield, perhaps instead of a *shield* it could become more of a bubble which grows as more MAXs use it in close proximity to each other. This would make it useful in more situations and encourage people to push forward with the MAXs while they are using it.

OR just give our MAX a HMG so we don't need to push to 0m to do damage.

Chewy · 2014-02-17, 07:16 PM

Iv been asking for a HMG type weapon for the NC MAX since Beta. The perfect thing would be to just make 2 weapons.

NS MAX AI weapons. A HMG and a Shotgun.

Or just use the flamethrower instead of a shotgun as that thing is finished all but for a DOT or area denial effect. Hell, you don't even need to make any new weapon models. Rehash the Flash weapon models for Kobalt and Renegade then nerf the stats to fit the MAXes balance needs. Just make them a middle ground weapon like all other NS weapons.

NC gets range, TR/VS gets a shotgun. Everyone has a niche they can choose instead of one being forced on them. I don't see how that isn't a win win win.

War Barney · 2014-02-17, 07:19 PM

Well I think the problem is its a win for us but not a win for the TR and VS as while they get an option for 0m fighting WE gain a gun for every range except 0m so we gain a lot more from it.

Of course they can't say that so they should completely support the idea as the only way to NOT support it is to say they know the shotgun MAX is useless and they want us to stay useless

Redshift · 2014-02-17, 08:33 PM

I agree with Chewy, TR and VS hate the NC MAX because it's a beast indoors, NC hate their MAX because TR and VS ones work outdoors (lets ignore the fact that indoors is where MAXs should be :P)

NS machine gun and shotgun would solve everything

Snoopy · 2014-02-17, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by War Barney

Well I think the problem is its a win for us but not a win for the TR and VS as while they get an option for 0m fighting WE gain a gun for every range except 0m so we gain a lot more from it.

Of course they can't say that so they should completely support the idea as the only way to NOT support it is to say they know the shotgun MAX is useless and they want us to stay useless

Whinge whinge whinge.

I'm fairly sure the VS and TR would jump at the opportunity for their maxes to have a shotgun. In return, the NC should be given a ranged weapon. Most wouldn't have a problem with that.

Then you might also then realise that a ranged weapon isn't the be-all and end-all, and that maxes still work best in relative close quarters combat.

Illtempered · 2014-02-17, 10:58 PM

slugs

Falcon_br · 2014-02-17, 11:54 PM

Teams with slugs and shields work the best I ever saw attacking biolabs.
The first row with shields, the second row firing, changing rows when the first row gets low health or the second row without ammo.

almalino · 2014-02-18, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by Falcon_br

Teams with slugs and shields work the best I ever saw attacking biolabs.
The first row with shields, the second row firing, changing rows when the first row gets low health or the second row without ammo.

That requires a lot of teamwork. And third row repairing?

Falcon_br · 2014-02-18, 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by almalino

That requires a lot of teamwork. And third row repairing?

I was dead before I saw the third row, and the bio lab into enemy hands.
I do think they had support infantry behind them, but I couldn´t see.

AThreatToYou · 2014-02-18, 04:53 AM

Just giving the NC max a mid-range focused spray-and-pray weapon (read: not slugs) would help it out a lot. I know MAX AI works best indoors, but they need some range or else they are useful only in a biolab. And even then, useful mainly inside or around the corner of a building inside the biolab. Knife-fight range.

KesTro · 2014-02-18, 05:32 AM

I feel inclined to chip in here as I have no problem with our NC MAX now, but perhaps I've just grown complacent over the last few months.

The problem I have with the NC MAX isn't range as that is overlooked with slugs, (try them sometime, seriously) the problem I have with them is that 40% of our time in an NC MAX is spent reloading. We have no sustained fire option regardless of range as TR and VS do. That to me is an even bigger problem, range aside.

War Barney · 2014-02-18, 06:09 AM

Slugs really dont help much, slugs will make the range reasonable for biolabs at times but all other areas its just not AND it decreases the damage so that if anything the VS and TR MAX ends up doing more damage so we lose the whole point of having shotguns.

As I keep saying, you want shotguns for your MAX? have them, have a million of them I don't care I just want at least 1 HMG option for my MAX so I'm not limited to a 5m range even with slugs

Baneblade · 2014-02-18, 09:15 AM

I would be okay with a 2 handed MAX HMG even.

typhaon · 2014-02-18, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Falcon_br

Teams with slugs and shields work the best I ever saw attacking biolabs.
The first row with shields, the second row firing, changing rows when the first row gets low health or the second row without ammo.

What works a lot better is just the same amount of MAX units - all with charge... charging.

Dragonskin · 2014-02-18, 11:41 AM

I'm for NC maxes having ranged options if VS and TR can have shotgun type CQC weapons. Ranged is great and all, but even ranged maxes get eaten outdoors. Most of the game revolves around CQC combat... meaning less than 50m.

The main issue I see with VS and TR maxes is that we don't have that insane burst at close range. NC maxes are hated so much because when you run into them you usually die instantly. There is zero room for reaction time and that takes a lot of the skill away from the player. You can run away from VS or TR maxes and re-engage on your own terms so that in many cases you can actually win even in CQC.