How about no XP at all!!!

Pilgrim · 2003-05-13, 01:10 PM

Got this off the beta forums thought it was good enough to duplicate here.

Now, please check all preconceived notions at the door. Read this with an open mind, because it differs greatly from how the game is currently, but I think it has merit. If you create a truly unique, engaging, challenging, and most importantly "fun" atmosphere, there will be no reason to encourage players to do anything, because they will seek to do it on their own. Abolish BEP. Leave CEP intact and unaffected. Destroy the current BEP system, and all conventional "level-building." Instead, assign players a greatly reduced number of certification points (reduced from the BR20 level) at character creation. Allow them to store "favorites" much like that of the equipment terminal. To go with this change, reduce all cert costs to 1-2, POSSIBLY with a few that cost 3. In total, a player would not have more than 7-10 total certification points. I have not re-calculated a skill tree at this level, so I can't quote exact numbers.

In effect, this would create a user-defined class based system. Being fully customizable, there are no restrictions on what a player chooses to define himself. However, there are much fewer choices in total of what each specific character can do. For instance, you will see starkly identified grunts, engineers, hackers, infiltrators, MAXs, etc. This will prevent people from becoming a "jack of all trades," but not restrict their experience so far as to allow gameplay to become boring. I would even keep the current "learning" system intact, so that players could only re-spec at Bio Labs and Sanctuary. Many RPGers want to feel like they have a role and purpose in combat, and FPS junkies don't want to play for a few days with a gimped character because they can't afford the spec they want. This lets both work together as a team.

I sure like this idea and wanted to hear what the PSU monkeys thought!

PAX

MilitantB0B · 2003-05-13, 01:17 PM

Hmmmm, I like it the way it is. I want something more then just the normal FPS expeirence, thats why I choose PlanetSide.

DaazTastic · 2003-05-13, 01:21 PM

i agree ^ ^ ^

The cert system has holding with a story. You need to gain rank to get the toys, they just don't hand out 2 billion dollar jets to privates now do they?

Airlift · 2003-05-13, 01:47 PM

I don't hate levels, I hate that levels are being emphasized to overshadow the real game.

Happy lil Elf · 2003-05-13, 02:07 PM

I don't hate levels, I hate that levels are being emphasized to overshadow the real game.

How so? The only reason I can imagine you feel this way is because it's talked about so much. Well honestly that's about the only thing as far as rewards that's implimented. Sure they say they're gonna add things in the months coming, but it's hard to talk about them when we aren't even given a clue as to what they might be.

This game will get old in it's present state and certainly will not be able to keep people paying for it. They are adding many things after release though so I haven't lost all hope or anything.

They need something to keep people playing. Exp is the easy answer, and it's an answer proven to work. Would I rather see something else that has the capability to keep people paying for PS? Yup. Will they come up with something? Eh, maybe. I have no doubt they'll come up with something, the question is if it will work or not.

LesserShade · 2003-05-13, 02:18 PM

I wouldn't cry if they through out the BR and just set everybody at 20. Everything else would stay the same including CEP and unlearning certs.

The leveling is such a joke, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to get yourself to br20 and when you are talking about a persistant MMO where everybody can get to the max level in 2 to 4 weeks why even bother?

Oh well, I could go either way so it doesn't bother me.

tmartinez72 · 2003-05-13, 02:28 PM

I like the leveling. It adds something new to the FPS genre. My only complaint is that leveling is too fast.

Airlift · 2003-05-13, 02:36 PM

Experience keeps the wrong people playing. I am sick of hearing about how old this game gets without the magical end game and long term goals. The fact of the matter is that the beginning game of Planetside smokes the end game of every other MMO title that has been released.

[disclaimer] This post contains extensive use of the pronoun "You". It is strictly figurative and does not imply anyone in particular. If YOU feel that I am speaking directly to YOU, you may refer your complaints to the nearest wall [/disclaimer]

I don't care if you play too much and it gets boring. That's your own fault for not having the sense to play less than eight hours a day. I don't care if you want your character to become some unique little guy as a result of your long dedication to his development. Fuck that, this is a first person shooter, and if epic battles on a scale never before seen aren't enough to keep you playing, then go play some other game. Hell, you could take your monthly fee and pick between three other Sony titles that are released or currently in beta (EQ / EQ2 / SWG), not to mention Persistent state games from a dozen other companies, including Blizzard's cash cow franchise, Warcraft.

Instead, the frantic pace and massive volume of your bitching is having a negative impact on the game. For that, I think you are a fucktard and should go explore the end game of Sims Online, where you can bask in the glory of your individualism. Happy Talk Bubbles, asshole.

[note] The rest of the post is in direct response to Happy Lil Elf, whom I was not talking about in the above section. Kthanx, drivethru. [/note]

How so? The only reason I can imagine you feel this way is because it's talked about so much. Well honestly that's about the only thing as far as rewards that's implimented. Sure they say they're gonna add things in the months coming, but it's hard to talk about them when we aren't even given a clue as to what they might be.

As I spelled out in a bunch of other posts, decreasing the rate at which experience is gained places more emphasis on the leveling game and activities that still yield reasonable amounts. People will choose not to do important and otherwise fun things because it is unrewarding to do so. Under an experience system where these activities are rewarded, they will be engaged in with much more consistency. Therefore, the added focus on experience is at the expense of the gameplay that I love and have not become bored with.

Happy lil Elf · 2003-05-13, 02:45 PM

You get exp for capping bases. You get exp for killing people of the opposing emipres and defending bases. No offense but what else is there to the game. Thus far capping, defending and killing is the game. There is no tradeskilling nor should there be. There is no creation. There is simply the destruction of your foes, which you recieve exp for.

The thing you're missing Air is if not enough people play the game, you won't have epic battles. They need something to keep people playing or your epic battles go right out the window a few months down the road. Personally the leveling thing doesn't bother me one way or the other. In or out, I'll still log on to play with my outfit. Of course I'm used to paying for a game on a monthly basis. Many, many FPS fans have never had to pay to play a game. You need something to hook them ala Evercrack. Not to say it has to be leveling, but something about the game has to addictive enough to make people pay $12.95 to play it. My fear is large battles alone won't do it.

Airlift · 2003-05-13, 02:55 PM

No, I see your point and agree that we need lots of people to have those epic battles. I've always gone under the assumption that there were enough people interested in what this game really does well to pay for it on a monthly basis. Indeed there are enough to fill the beta servers, but I have no idea how it will play out in the public.

You get exp for capping bases. You get exp for killing people of the opposing emipres and defending bases. No offense but what else is there to the game.

http://planetside-universe.com/forum...&threadid=8716

There is a shit-ton of hidden variety in the ways that you can cap bases and kill your enemies. What more is there in any game of capture the base besides killing and capping? The more is not outside of those things, it is inside of them.

Geiden · 2003-05-13, 03:09 PM

TwistPS, one of the Planetside Devs said this on the beta forums...

EXP is intended in this game as a method of allowing characters to differentiate (through their choice of certs, which are gained as you build exp) and as a slight value in the accomplishments of the character.

The range of EXP was always intended to be thin in Planetside and *not the point of the gameplay*. You play to fight. EXP is a byproduct of that but *not the point* nor was it ever intended to be. When we think of ways of retaining customers, we do NOT think of EXP as a tool for that. All our thoughts along those lines are "how do we make the game fresh and cool so people keep playing". It's implied in all of those discussions that everybody we're considering from a retention standpoint is capped out on exp already.

So for those of you considering that we adjust exp to keep you playing for 2.26 months or whatever on average before you cap out, you can let that worry go. It's not the objective, never has been, and won't be.

As you can see from above, XP is NOT intended as a hook to keep players in the game. I think that using XP for player differentiation, i.e. forcing new players to choose certs wisely, is valid. However, how will they handle differentiation when there are a large number of BR15+ players in the game?

I personally feel that the XP system detracts more from the game than it benefits. How so? Players are so focused on maximizing their potential XP that they neglect combat elsewhere to ensure they get their points. I've seen hordes of players take a base and then stand around 10mins waiting for the cap while the enemies ransack other bases on the continent. The recent changes to XP and base caps only exacerbate the problem.

Leumas · 2003-05-13, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by LesserShade

The leveling is such a joke, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to get yourself to br20 and when you are talking about a persistant MMO where everybody can get to the max level in 2 to 4 weeks why even bother?

Did you ever think that they may have just sped up the leveling so people could get a good feel of what the game is like in the amount of time that the beta test would be on?

Just a thought I'm kinda knew to this forum and game but.... it seems logical.

Airlift · 2003-05-13, 03:26 PM

It's true... they are claiming up and down that the game is not about the exps, but every recent change to the reward system has added more focus to gaining experience at the expense of good gameplay. On one hand, we have what they are saying, and on the other we have what they are doing.

LesserShade · 2003-05-13, 03:28 PM

perhaps, but I'm saying they could take it out for all I care. After a few weeks after release nearly everybody is going to be maxed out anyway.

Pilgrim · 2003-05-13, 04:16 PM

I play a moderate amount... perhaps 3 hours a night on a good night... let's call it 15 hours a week. And in Beta with the 2 wipes I have yet to get a charcter above BR11... But I also don't focus on XP... lots of people have gotten XP from my efforts, but I don't get it. So what's the point?

I agree... set everyone to around BR10... or better yet, have a certification proccess for weapons ALA Americas Army. Then let people fight for the reason of fighting! In Beta when we were all BR20 guess what, we all fought, why... TO FIGHT, to win, to push them out of that base... even knowing that it was a temporary solution. Levels are not a motive to fight, they just hinder you from being able to. Set up a BR system in which you get KEWL uniforms, and spiffy options for how you dress, or other way to show your e-penis.. but make it so everyone really is equal at the begining.

PAX