Squad Spawn debate

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by Lokster

Of course there is (or will be) similarities between the two. I also play BF3. You forget one major and distinct difference (aside from the obvious map size and player count) which is persistence and the hard truth that you can't balance things based on a 15 minute "match". Designing gameplay for spurts of 10-15 minutes while knowing a reset is directly afterwards is a completely different animal from designing a game that is persistent with no resets. Also what works with 64 players probably will not work with 2000.

My post was based on comparing an open beta experience of a basic FPS (and how nothing major typically changes before retail) and that of an MMO closed BETA -- where hundreds if not thousands of things change and/or are tweaked before retail (or launch in this case -- since there will be no "retail" fee).

I am confident PS2's BETA will in fact be a BETA where the testers have input and core concepts will be tweaked, added, removed or changed.

And so again, I reiterate the need to wait until BETA, to put forth any serious criticism or debate on the squad spawn issue and/or it's mechanics.

Ah yes, whenever I plug the idea of a Battlefield MMO I always tell them they need to not be stuck to the idea of the round ending and the game saying you won and here's your uber KDR, and instead, ask yourself, after an hour or 2 of play, did your squad capture, or at least make progress toward what you were doing? If not, you lost. If so, you won.

As for "2000" players, on average, exactly how many enemies are expected to be within firing range during the course of an attack? Note that enemies down below ground that you'll never see unless you bust through to them don't count as far I mean.

[Ruwyn]

Originally Posted by WiteBeam

I like your idea about only certain types of classes would be able to spawn. That would keep heavies and MAXes from making it an overkill issue.

Or they can bring the AMS back.

Squad spawning is the most atrocious thing in BF games. While you are killing one guy, another spawns behind him, and then another behind him, and....

You run out of ammo and die and their whole squad is back right where they were by the time you spawn.


Not having the AMS brought back is one of the biggest mistakes they can make. They want to increase the speed that people get back into the battle but take away the MOST used respawn method? Galaxies being able to land and be used as an "AMS" is absurd. Every single enemy on the field is gonna be able to see a huge ship flying on the edge of the battle and land. Getting a galaxy close is going to be impossible. AMSs were able to get cover in trees, behind walls, small hills, etc. They were also Imperative to have in order to resupply. Which leads me to not being able to manage your own inventory = negative compared to PS1. I'll find the correct thread on that topic...along with 1 grenade.....gonna be a bitch to clear mine fields.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by Ruwyn

Squad spawning is the most atrocious thing in BF games. While you are killing one guy, another spawns behind him, and then another behind him, and....

You run out of ammo and die and their whole squad is back right where they were by the time you spawn.


Not having the AMS brought back is one of the biggest mistakes they can make. They want to increase the speed that people get back into the battle but take away the MOST used respawn method? Galaxies being able to land and be used as an "AMS" is absurd. Every single enemy on the field is gonna be able to see a huge ship flying on the edge of the battle and land. Getting a galaxy close is going to be impossible. AMSs were able to get cover in trees, behind walls, small hills, etc. They were also Imperative to have in order to resupply. Which leads me to not being able to manage your own inventory = negative compared to PS1. I'll find the correct thread on that topic...along with 1 grenade.....gonna be a bitch to clear mine fields.

On squad spawning, only a problem if you're lonewolfing. However, remember that if you're basing this on BF3 it uses the terrible Allspawning instead of SL spawn.

If squads want to stick together, squad spawning is absolutely essential. Spawning back somewhere else and having to always fight your back to your squad is hardly conducive to that.

[ThGlump]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

However, remember that if you're basing this on BF3 it uses the terrible Allspawning instead of SL spawn.

If SL is specced enough in squad spawning you can spawn on any member of squad. Here is your terrible allspawning in PS2.

Originally Posted by Stardouser

If squads want to stick together, squad spawning is absolutely essential. Spawning back somewhere else and having to always fight your back to your squad is hardly conducive to that.

You are not supposed to spawn. You are supposed to wait till ressed by medic. Thats what worked in ps1. No respawn till some medic was alive (or your body was totally overrun by enemy)

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by ThGlump

If SL is specced enough in squad spawning you can spawn on any member of squad. Here is your terrible allspawning in PS2.

Who is you? The leader, or ANY squad member? Either way, I'm in total disagreement with allspawning. Kill the leader, kill the squad's respawn ability. Allspawning is not acceptable, in BF, or anywhere else. Don't need to wait for Beta to tell you that.

[Ruwyn]

Originally Posted by ThGlump

If SL is specced enough in squad spawning you can spawn on any member of squad. Here is your terrible allspawning in PS2.

And what's to prevent passing SL around if said SL dies?

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by Ruwyn

And what's to prevent passing SL around if said SL dies?

No one should be able to leave or join the squad unless alive, that will prevent changing SL by dropping squad while dead, and they simply shouldn't have a mechanism to change the SL, SL should be determined by who creates the squad.

[ThGlump]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Who is you? The leader, or ANY squad member? Either way, I'm in total disagreement with allspawning. Kill the leader, kill the squad's respawn ability. Allspawning is not acceptable, in BF, or anywhere else. Don't need to wait for Beta to tell you that.

Im against any squad spawning in general, but what can we do . It was stated by dev somewhere when introducing this, that basic squad spawn is on SL, if specced s on anybody in squad. I suppose no exceptions, so SL can spawn on squad member too.

[ThGlump]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

No one should be able to leave or join the squad unless alive, that will prevent changing SL by dropping squad while dead, and they simply shouldn't have a mechanism to change the SL, SL should be determined by who creates the squad.

Whoa hold on. Dont take away good mechanism. Ability to pass SL to somebody else is needed.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by ThGlump

You are not supposed to spawn. You are supposed to wait till ressed by medic. Thats what worked in ps1. No respawn till some medic was alive (or your body was totally overrun by enemy)

Interesting...how long you could be revivable? For as long as you waited?

I think, though, that a 45 second respawn timer(which is actually too high by far), is more than enough to balance it. 25 seconds would be the sweet spot I think.

And I'm sure we can all remind each other BF and PS are different but nevertheless, having seen 45 second and more respawn timers in Project Reality, and instant respawns in BF3(yes, DICE is actually letting people choose to set the respawn timer to zero), I'd say 25 seconds is enough for the Squad Spawn. Assuming, of course, it's SL spawn only, because finding and killing the squad leader should force the SL to run back, period.

But this is where their willingness to listen in beta will be tested I suppose.

Originally Posted by ThGlump

Whoa hold on. Dont take away good mechanism. Ability to pass SL to somebody else is needed.

OK, preserve the mechanism, but how would you keep people from doing it in the middle of a firefight? Perhaps a timer that keeps you from doing it more than once per 5 minutes(though everyone simply leaving a squad and the correct leader reforming it seems fine to me)? Of course if they are going to use herpspawning(as allspawning is called), I don't suppose that would matter. So fighting against herpspawning is key.

[ThGlump]

You could lay dead up to 5 minutes if i remember. It was important as deeply behind lines, inside buildings, defending being outnumbered, you could not get back to squad if you respawn. Leaving your defense and counterattacking to save someone who died in bad position was great part of teamplay. I never get that from BF series as you are forced to respawn after 15s - stupid.

[Buggsy]

Spawn on squad/beacon = very bad idea. It completely destroys any semblance to a battle-line front-line, everyone just runs around randomly shooting in random directions.

I hate how players randomly spawn behind you in COD, in fact I hate it so much I never purchased a COD game outside of the free one I got when I bought my video card.

You want me money? Don't dumb down the game.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by bigcracker

I play a lot of FPS and squad spawning yes it's a good thing,But is it right for planetside 2? Imo if it's like battlefield series then no,If you can spawn on a Squad leader what would be the point of getting a full squad into a galaxy or apc and taking the risk?What we are gonna see is people taking fast fighters jumping out, hitting the ground and have a spawnbomb (BF2) on that person asoon as he hits the ground,Or kill a max suit and just re-spawn 30seconds latter next to his squadleader to rush the same hallway again.SO Here is some ideas I have for squad spawning take them as you like.

Squad Beacon
- Squad Leader places a beacon that has to be guarded
- Cost resources to deploy
- Beacon acts sort of like TF2 Only allows 3-4 solders to re-spawn then goes through a cool down.
- Only certain types of classes allowed to spawn on the beacon
- Beacon can be upgraded with defensive LMG, but as a down side lowers the amount of soldiers that can spawn on it over time and its overall health is decreased.
-Beacon can be upgraded with a shield generator surrounding it so squad members can spawn in safe but can not fire from inside the bubble.Enemy units can pass through the shield to destroy the beacon or fire on the shield enough to disable the shield.

This sound like a rip off of killzone 2 respawn becon Or BF3 respawn becon But I dont like that at all for planetside

To me Squad respawn with POD with a limitation timer is enough also we already have Galaxie and sunderer that serve as a respawn i think its enough also the defenders respawn directly in the facility etc..

I think we are already good for the respawn possibility NO need to have more and no need to cost ressource its just a bad limitation for the billions of Noobs who gona try out this game !

[ratfusion]

If the devs are going to borrow any idea from the BF series gameplay, spawn-on-squad should be it. All spawn members, no resources, longer spawn timer.

Elite types can whine all they want, but spawn-on-squad makes PUG squads instantly more teamplay oriented, moreso than any other incentive. The drawbacks are insignificant compared to that advantage.

Just keep it outside of bases only.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Originally Posted by ratfusion

If the devs are going to borrow any idea from the BF series gameplay, spawn-on-squad should be it. All spawn members, no resources, longer spawn timer.

Elite types can whine all they want, but spawn-on-squad makes PUG squads instantly more teamplay oriented, moreso than any other incentive. The drawbacks are insignificant compared to that advantage.

Just keep it outside of bases only.

/rudegesture PUGs... all spawning is a broken mechanic in the games it started in; it negates the importance of taking/destroying enemy spawn points. Limited squad spawning (since it's not going away) should be an occasionally useful tool, not the default option.