Poll: One stab kill?

[EASyEightyEight]

Originally Posted by Malorn

I would agree if the stabber also had the melee boost implant, but it also depends on how lethal other weapons are. My main concern with knife lethality is its easy use by an infiltrator.

At least in PS if an infil was going to knife you it took 2 hits at most with melee boost and alternate fire mode on the knife. This gave you a fighting chance and you also got a little warning about it from the alt fire mode sound. I thought that was a good mechanic and kept melee infils from getting out of hand but was still more than sufficient for talented players.

The problem is, most of them don't knife of those reasons. Most of them stick with the amp, full charge magnum, or a boomer on your butt because they come with no audible forewarning and generally off their target faster anyway. In rare cases, spamming grenades from a wall.

The gist of it is, compared to other forms of assassination, the knife is left on the shelf in favor of less disadvantageous methods. Knives should be rewarding - yet risky - for all the attention they attract to a cloaker.

[Talek Krell]

Why? If they already have the amp, magnum and boomer (the boomer has no audible forewarning? Really?) then why should the knife be made more powerful?

I see no reason a knife shouldn't be a last ditch, used up all my ammo, no chance in hell but rather die fighting option.

[daish k]

Do we know if any weapons will be like the PS1 phoenix? Because if there are weapons that take the players view away from his immediate area, that should also be considered when looking at weapons that will mainly be used by cloakers. I could imagine there being several tools like that, where the player sees something from a different perspective, like drones or spy cameras. And the more of these type of things there are, the worse 1-hit knife kills would be. Although, there could be some argument made that someone who is remote viewing like that would be more vulnerable to knives I suppose.

[Malorn]

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

The gist of it is, compared to other forms of assassination, the knife is left on the shelf in favor of less disadvantageous methods. Knives should be rewarding - yet risky - for all the attention they attract to a cloaker.

You mean in a world of firearms and explosives a knife isn't the first choice of a assassination weapon? I'm stunned!

[Trolltaxi]

Instakill knifes are simply not fitting into PS.

But it would be fun if in cases you emptied your main weapon you could drop that and pull a knife for a finishing stab. Even faster than your sidearm. Damage would be like in PS1, so it wouldn't help you if you haven't injured your enemy badly.

[Graywolves]

The planetside way is fine. If you could sneak up to people who are doing something else (firing a decimator or something that takes most of their attention) you can get them by surprise and get enough hits to kill them.

You're probably already in an infiltrator type suit so you want to remain stealthy and unknown to avoid darklight. So you should have to pick your targets extra-carefully as you would trying to sneak into the generator or CC while the enemy is spawning and running all over the base.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

Why? If they already have the amp, magnum and boomer (the boomer has no audible forewarning? Really?) then why should the knife be made more powerful?

I see no reason a knife shouldn't be a last ditch, used up all my ammo, no chance in hell but rather die fighting option.

Boomers make an obvious bleep when they are planted, which gives more than enough time to run forward and avoid it, unless you're playing on a god awful connection.

[CutterJohn]

I am fine with one shot kill backstabs, but not from the front or sides. Ambushing someone sitting still and fixated on another target with a knife is good fun. Doing so while they are pumping you full of lead is not as fine.

I would be fine with being able to one shot MAX units from the back as well.

I would like the knives to have the powered mode again, which enables the one shotting behavior. The powered mode would require a chargeup prior to attack, 0.5 to 1s in length, which would make a noise and make a cloaker more visible. Possibly also disrupt the cloak for a few seconds afterwords.

[Bravix]

I'd be fine with 1 hit kill with knife under the following conditions:

-Equip knife, like the current PS knife
-Secondary (noisy) mode must be on
-Must attack from behind
-Animation of kill (it's badass for the killer, makes the victim go "ah F$#%", and keeps the assassin from running up behind a group of players and waving his knife around wildly getting massive kills).

Attacks from anywhere but the rear (lol) would count as failed attacks. They'd do large damage (80% health?), but the attacker would be 'stunned', as if they had swung a sword (or any other similar object) at a solid, unmoving object such as a boulder.

Edit: During the animation I think the cloaker should remain semi-cloaked, like sprinting-across-the-battlefield-cloaked.

You could still get kills from the front, but you'd have to avoid being shot and the person would likely have to already of taken some damage.

[Atuday]

See this is a good thread. I'm glad we had this chat so the devs might use some of these ideas. A lot of them seem pretty balanced.

Special thanks to all the trolls who decided to STFU for once.

[EASyEightyEight]

Originally Posted by Malorn

You mean in a world of firearms and explosives a knife isn't the first choice of a assassination weapon? I'm stunned!

Ironically, in a world where there exists invisible guys meant to work behind enemy lines in the way of infiltration, fully automatic handguns and high yield explosives are far more subtle than the damn tool meant to slit one's throat.

Something seems a little messed up in that picture from where I'm standing.

Originally Posted by Redshift

Boomers make an obvious bleep when they are planted, which gives more than enough time to run forward and avoid it, unless you're playing on a god awful connection.

More like my guns are going off and I'm not standing alone. That crappy little beep is EASILY drowned out by all the other noise. And I'm referring to the plant beep, not the detonation beep, which IS loud (but always too late.)

[Talek Krell]

I've yet to be killed by a boomer I think. They just sound so terribly obvious to me. I think this may just be a case of you not being good about hearing them, and that's anecdotal at best.

The way I see it the point of an infiltrator isn't to rack up kills, it's to infiltrate. Sabotaging equipment, gathering information, and disrupting defenses so your empire's soldiers can more easily advance.

[Ferriman]

As an avid player of Battlefield Bad Company 2 as well as Planetside 1 and other games...

The 1 Stab = 1 Kill with the cinematic style motion of the act is simply beautiful.

YES they should have that in this game BUT! If you have armour of say 100 in PS1 it takes a 2 stabs from the front or in a cinematic style motion (2 stabs to crack through the armour) AND if it's the PS1 200 armour then they can try with the cinematic motion but will FAIL! unless they are attacking from behind in which case I think it's a back of the neck kill!

All attacks to the back of the neck kills should be 1 hit = 1 kill.

You can't make 1 stab = 1 kill when they are wearing heavy armour from the front.

People are going to say no way futuristic armour... understood but what about the futuristic blade... secondary function with the buzz and an attack on a weak point i.e. back of the neck. Buzz noise will give us time to react and unless your good you won't be annoying too many people.

:g roovy::gro ovy:

[exLupo]

Originally Posted by Bravix

-Equip knife, like the current PS knife
-Secondary (noisy) mode must be on
-Must attack from behind
-Animation of kill.

Make the animation short but add in both Melee Boost implant -and- a specific skill tree (knife and other related branches).

Between PS1, TF2 and 2142/BFBC2 I've spent a good amount of time focused on sticking knives in people's backs. In my opinion, I've got a pretty good handle on what works too well, what strikes a balance and what simply doesn't work at all.

BF: Too easy. Quick-knife instagib just makes close engagement boring and, frankly, would be far too strong for a fully invisible unit.

TF2: Equip and back only but still instagib. It rewards the stealth unit for getting to that place unexposed. However, there are still chainstabs. TF2 has, for most knives, the regular Name Knife Name kill marker. PS2 will probably have this and it will be a tell but that alone wouldn't be enough in the huge distraction of the field. However, I think the addition of the knife noise is enough to get anyone who is paying attention to turn around and the infil would then be hosed if they stuck around.

PS1: The current 2 stab model just doesn't work. Yes, you can get someone who isn't paying attention but after the first stab, most players twirl around and hose you. I'm of the opinion that if you've put in the time to get to zero range on your target, have put in the certs and the implant slot, having a 50/50 or less chance at a kill is laughable. The reward for the time required for the action is out of whack. Not that long time should = instant success but I believe people are looking at the actual difficulty of the stab in the wrong way.

For games with slow stab mechanics, the difficulty isn't the stab. The difficulty is the set-up. Getting into the right place. Getting up on your target. Timing the shot so it actually lands in the weak spot. This is even evident in single player games. I'm running Deus Ex 1 for the first time and going for a no-kill completion so I'm doing a lot of creeping, waiting and then whacking guards in the back of the head. The whack? Easy. The setup? That's the hard part. This is only more difficult when you're dealing with real, paranoid humans behind the toon.

The argument that instant kills, with a high setup attack, make for easy play is myopic. If it is easy, I challenge anyone to get the 1000 backstab TF2 achievement without using a bot server. The reality is far, far more difficult than it is made to sound.

---

Léon: The rifle is the first weapon you learn how to use, because it lets you keep your distance from the client. The closer you get to being a pro, the closer you can get to the client. The knife, for example, is the last thing you learn.

[Elude]

Please add weapon bashing to the poll.