Squad Spawn debate

[Mr DeCastellac]

Originally Posted by WiteBeam

Or they can bring the AMS back.

It's more fun to take great ideas that worked in practice, and toss them away for sketchy new ones ;~;

[SurgeonX]

Originally Posted by Conq

EDIT: And SurgeonX, I hate your signature. Get that purple off a my logo!

Thanks man!
Glad you like it
Vanu for life!

[Mr DeCastellac]

Originally Posted by SurgeonX

Thanks man!
Glad you like it
Vanu for life!

I, for one, love your signature! One step towards improving the looks of the other empire logos!

[Algo]

I'd never use a spawn system like the one in the OP if i can just have an already respawning teammate move up the galaxy and redeploy it closer. Its better all around.

[Purple]

so long as the other teams can tell who iis spawning them i can accept this.

[Tatwi]

Originally Posted by WiteBeam

I like your idea about only certain types of classes would be able to spawn. That would keep heavies and MAXes from making it an overkill issue.

Or they can bring the AMS back.

I liked the AMS.

I would prefer group tactics over zerg combat. Troops are resources and success is your level of advancement toward an object while maintaining those resources. Support players are there, in all forms, to assist in maintaining your level of advancement. Add in the ability to skip ahead, right back into being fully advanced, and not only do you significantly diminish the usefulness of support players you also make defense a moot point - once an enemy has advanced into your facility, it is a forgone conclusion that you will lose, because the enemy is spawning inside your defensive perimeter.

I liked the AMS. You had to park it somewhere and be smart about getting it there and not blowing its cover. The AMS was tactical. The AMS was Planetside style, multi player tactical combat.

I'd prefer to only have the AMS / Galaxy as spawn points. Keep the zerging for Starcraft.

[roguy]

Originally Posted by Tatwi

I would prefer group tactics over zerg combat.
(...)
I'd prefer to only have the AMS / Galaxy as spawn points. Keep the zerging for Starcraft.

The whole point of the squad leader spawning system is so that squads can stick together and play as a team.

BF2/BF2142 wern't even close to being as "zergy" as PS1 was...

[Tatwi]

Originally Posted by roguy

The whole point of the squad leader spawning system is so that squads can stick together and play as a team.

BF2/BF2142 wern't even close to being as "zergy" as PS1 was...

There's no reason why a squad can't regroup at an AMS and move in as a team rather than spawning inside the defensive perimeter, which is basically an "I Win" button (especially when other squads are doing the same thing...).

There's nothing tactical about squad spawning. It's simply the easiest way to roll over bases and keep the winners winning and the losers going somewhere else where they can be winners too.

[roguy]

Originally Posted by Tatwi

There's no reason why a squad can't regroup at an AMS and move in as a team rather than spawning inside the defensive perimeter

Yeah there is, winning over bases in PS1 was all about keeping up the pressure. Die, rez, rush back in fast and push the front line, no time to keep waiting for each of your squad members to respawn and run back to you before moving out.

In battlefield I'm always playing with my friends, spotting, laying down covering fire, giving out orders...
In PS1 as soon as a few of us died we just had to stay "content" that we were all within 500m2 of each other...

Originally Posted by Tatwi

, which is basically an "I Win" button (especially when other squads are doing the same thing...).

And since everyone is doing the same (including defenders) it's balanced in that regard. AMS wern't overpowered compared to spawning at bases because you couldn't pull Maxes and vehicles. Squad leader spawning can be balanced since 1 SL is an easy kill, long respawn timers, drop pods revealing your location etc.

Originally Posted by Tatwi

There's nothing tactical about squad spawning. It's simply the easiest way to roll over bases and keep the winners winning and the losers going somewhere else where they can be winners too.

This didn't happen in BF2/BF2142, so what makes it game breaking in PS2?

[Tatwi]

Originally Posted by roguy

This didn't happen in BF2/BF2142, so what makes it game breaking in PS2?

Maps reset in BF2/BF2142. In PS2 people can just go somewhere else when they know they've lost. Sounds fun.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by roguy

This didn't happen in BF2/BF2142, so what makes it game breaking in PS2?

Context.

Numbers of players is extremely important. Getting boxed in where a class can setup new spawnpoints would mean the rest of the zerg would protect that spawnpoint and you'd set up a lot of these beacons for tons of squads. (And could set them up anew endlessly, especially if every player has access to every class and can spec in it)

Gameplay being entirely different in terms of logistics would be overhauled completely, because it would be much harder to take out all the beacons and much harder to clear an area if there's just one guy with beacon (instead of large object) left. As if a single AMS or four for an entire zerg is not hard enough to take out.

If you can't see the problems, think harder.

[Stardouser]

I spend a significant amount of time lobbying against what Battlefield 3 has become, and ultimately lobbying for progress to a point that even previous BF games never reached.

My personal vision is a game of maps that are HUGE, but where this hugeness is offset by things like squad spawning, transport vehicle spawning, etc. Planetside seems to have the huge maps thing set...and I think that the current plans are just right...fast respawn timer if you spawn back at your Galaxy or wherever, slightly longer repawn if you respawn on a squadleader who is closer to the fight.

Squad spawning is simply an excellent way of keeping squads together, and keeping the pace appropriately tempered. In no way do I want to see a CoD or BF3 speed of pace, but I don't think that will happen so long as they are faithful to huge maps.

I am assuming, by the way, that this is spawn on the squad LEADER only, and not the spawn on any squad member casualization that BF3 has unwisely adopted.

[Skitrel]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

I am assuming, by the way, that this is spawn on the squad LEADER only, and not the spawn on any squad member casualization that BF3 has unwisely adopted.

This is correct. And this, in combination with 45 second spawns, and drop pods, makes it absolutely fine and everyone should just fucking wait and see instead of crying.

[CutterJohn]

-Cannot be used indoors
-Uses a drop pod, and as such is in no way stealthy
-Has a considerably longer spawn time.

Squad spawning, with the stated restrictions, should be a decent addition to gameplay imo. Its not the crazy BF2 style spawn anywhere, including inside of operating vehicles, or the even crazier spawn on anyone in your squad which made it an exercise in futility to clear a squad from a building.

The stated system is pretty modest, has some downsides, and is definitely NOT a replacement for a gal or spawn tubes for a full on base push.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

-Cannot be used indoors
-Uses a drop pod, and as such is in no way stealthy
-Has a considerably longer spawn time.

Squad spawning, with the stated restrictions, should be a decent addition to gameplay imo. Its not the crazy BF2 style spawn anywhere, including inside of operating vehicles, or the even crazier spawn on anyone in your squad which made it an exercise in futility to clear a squad from a building.

The stated system is pretty modest, has some downsides, and is definitely NOT a replacement for a gal or spawn tubes.

Just wanted to make clear for anyone who doesn't know, the crazier "spawn on anyone" is a BC2/BF3 thing. Over at Mordor we rally against this kind of thing daily as BF begins its descent down the toilet bowl whirlpool.

Exactly how obvious are drop pods? How high of a mountain does your SL have to hide behind before it will obscure it from the enemy?