The Impending Magrider Nerf. - Page 2

Aveox · 2013-01-25, 09:26 PM

I think that even if they nerf the Magrider it won't change much. As a regular Mag driver I can only describe the Vanguard and Prowler's problems as "1/2". Most Vanguards and Prowlers I meet don't have a second gunner. And if they do then 9 times out of 10 it's with a stock machine gun, or no shield, no armor etc.

Now, if I would be 1/2 in my Mag I would be very careful when engaging a 1/2 Vanguard or Prowler. Knowing my tank, I know that shot for shot it's weaker in a 1 vs 1 then any of the other two. So I'm ALWAYS 2/2, with a Saron, front armor to take that extra hit, rival chassis to upgrade my strafe speed and Magburner to escape. Ofcourse my gunner and I will rip a stock or barely upgraded Vanguard or Prowler to shreds, because that is exactly what we outfitted it for.
The rare occasions that we do meet a fully upgraded 2/2 Vanguard or Prowler with proper secondary gun we have to use every trick we can in order to survive. Those are the best duels, and hugely rewarding if we win. But since barely anyone bothers to upgrade it's a shooting gallery for us.

Another thing I notice is that both Vanguard and Prowler drivers just tend to park and start lobbing shells at long distance. What can I say? They engage us at the range we are most comfortable with. So we let them have it. And since they usually don't move at all it's again, a shooting gallery for us.
The better tank drivers will try to close the gap to ensure more hits and force the Mag to go on the defensive, or they rotate their tank bodies sideways (presenting their shielded sides) so they too can strafe dodge my shots at range with moving backwards and forwards. But most of them will just park and spam and expect somehow to win against a highly mobile opponent with a rail gun that is build from the ground up to kill other tanks.

So to conclude: From what I see on the battlefield on Miller, Mags are mostly winning fights because they play to their strengths against poorly equipped opponents. But let them nerf us, and we'll try even harder to win each fight!

ShadetheDruid · 2013-01-25, 09:45 PM

Closing the gap on Magriders to ensure more hits is a terrible strategy, that's why no one does it. It's just free hits for the Magriders, since all the while your aim is going to be thrown off by the movement of the tank. That's why Vanguards and Prowlers (and Lightnings, for that matter) sit still to fire, there's no other way to do it.

Not that there's not a lot of bad tank drivers out there, but that's not why.

maradine · 2013-01-25, 09:54 PM

Give Vanguards and Prowlers stabilized main turrets (like any AFV built in the last 50 years, frankly) and call it a day.

Aveox · 2013-01-25, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by ShadetheDruid

Closing the gap on Magriders to ensure more hits is a terrible strategy, that's why no one does it. It's just free hits for the Magriders, since all the while your aim is going to be thrown off by the movement of the tank. That's why Vanguards and Prowlers (and Lightnings, for that matter) sit still to fire, there's no other way to do it.

Not that there's not a lot of bad tank drivers out there, but that's not why.

Maybe that is the difference then: When I drive my Lightning I never stop. Ever. I'm always moving unless I'm dead or reloading. And while the view does bounce around a lot, it hasn't stopped me from landing shots.

Magriders don't like up close and personal confrontations. I sure don't. So when you force me to move (and I do mean move, not simple strafing to dodge shells) that saron will rattle around just as much as your main gun and is next to useless. Stay at range, and I will stabilize my tank to allow my gunner the best shot possible. Any hits with the main gun are a bonus. In situations like that the Mag behaves exactly as the PS1 version actually.

But whatever floats your boat I guess.

typhaon · 2013-01-25, 10:56 PM

Prowler: Do we know the damage value of a single shot and how that compares to the damage from a single shot from a Vanguard/Magrider?

The double-shot is a feature. While it might be harder to hit with both shots... it's also easier to hit with 1 shot. It might not be what you like - but I certainly don't see it as an obvious negative.

Cronoc · 2013-01-25, 11:15 PM

Was the Magrider considered overpowered in Planetside 1? I don't recall it from my time in PS1... and it had the same maneuverability then. Has the switch to the pilot-gunner paradigm ruined that so much, or were the other faction's tanks better in some way than in PS2?

Dkamanus · 2013-01-25, 11:42 PM

The Biggest problem of the Magrider is the accessability he has to places no other tanks has. Hell, seeing a Magrider climb mountainside and then see NC/TR equivalents try does give a HUGE advantage to VS. Either brick the VS more, so he can't go to certain mountain ranges, or make the other two do the same thing. The magriders agility in the mountains will still be there.

The problem is when you can't go after one tank because HE can go to a place you can't in anyway go. Even with 12.5% less damage, positioning in tank combat is everything, so...

Chewy · 2013-01-26, 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by Cronoc

Was the Magrider considered overpowered in Planetside 1? I don't recall it from my time in PS1... and it had the same maneuverability then. Has the switch to the pilot-gunner paradigm ruined that so much, or were the other faction's tanks better in some way than in PS2?

-Not a vet so don't quote me to much-

From my understanding of PS, you couldn't get any vehicle (maybe a flash) without first putting an amount of your limited points into it. If you didn't spec into vehicles the only access you had to them was catching a ride and being a gunner. That and the forced need for a gunner (Id love to see this) alone put a hard cap on the number of tanks on the field. Each one also had to be taken care of because of them having around 3-4 times the cost of what we got now in PS2 (assuming).

There was also a lot of faction styled weapons that could be use to easily take out an oblivious tank. NC had a fly by wire rocket, VS had lasers, and "I think" TR had a swarm missile. There wasn't a way to dodge those things with hardware limits back then with the 2003 net coding. Floating or on tracks, you needed to be good to use and keep a vehicle. So what made PS1 tanks balanced isn't going to work in PS2 without a hard limit to the shear number of tanks people can got for, might as well be, free at near any base.

Plus PS had 10 years now to develop as a MMO. I was told it was FAR worse than what PS2 is when it first came out. 10 years of work really does wonders for balance.

I for one think that the power of tanks are great as is. TRs 2 shots make them a threat to anyone no matter what ammo they have. NCs can punch a boulder at cost of ammo and speed. VS never have to expose their backs and can be on the move 100% of the time. Each has its strength and play to the faction roles.

The only thing Id like to see happen is how Mags control. For a heavy tank that has zero contact with the ground and thus no traction and/or friction. How the hell can it move so well? That's the Mags real power right there. Nothing else can get to places it can and that front gun is by far a plus in a few ways. First is not having to show your back to any threat in a fight, and another is being able to move at all angles at will.

I was a magnetic nut job growing up. Must have had piles of magnets all over my room and played with them for hours. The one thing I can tell you about magnets and how their forces work is that there is NO controlling it without a special base or gluing one in place. Even then it takes some effort to get them to do what you want. I still have 2 stuck together that Im unable to split apart.

Reaver · 2013-01-26, 01:32 AM

I think if they want to get serious about fixing the balance between vs and nc/tr tanks they should start by making the side armor for nc/tr tanks the same as their front. This allows the tracked tanks to at least somewhat match the magrider in manuverability while keeping the vanu tank distinct and unique. The idea I think should be to bring the TR and NC up to the vanu's level. If this is not enough then add a proper suspension to the vanguard and prowler making it easier to aim.

Mordelicius · 2013-01-26, 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by Assist

Anyone else feel this is just another example of people who do not play the game enough? There's more Liberators in the air then there are MBT's on the ground and they want to nerf the Magrider? I'd love to see ratios, since the HE nerf, of kills to MBT spawn for each faction. You want to nerf something then fix the NC MAX, but my guess is that won't happen since Higby plays NC.

You want to know why it's outperforming Higby? It's because it's the only unique vehicle in the entire game. Go ahead and nerf it's agility, in the meantime give it a gun turret that's half as good as the Vanguard or Prowler. The Magrider has agility because you gave it a turret that doesn't shoot half as vertical as the Prowler or Vanguard and it cannot move horizontal at all. Give it two shots like the Prowler or an invulnerability shield like the Vanguard. If you nerf the agility of the Magrider it'll be completely useless. It's already the worst tank 1 on 1 with any weapon setup. You guys are big on statistics and data comparison, please show us the numbers you're looking at to justify the Magrider nerf.

Fix the Vanguard acceleration, don't change a vehicle that is overused because it's unique. The Prowler is more than fine as it is, it can run circles around a Magrider faster than the Magrider can spin to keep hitting it.

Are you seriously in denial about the Magrider's overpowered-ness?

The problem with the Magrider is they can easily evade incoming shots with their ability to move in any direction. They are strong in any range, especially long ones.

In long ranged fights, especially when it can position itself in normally inaccessible areas, they are nigh invincible. The only normal counter would be to use air. And even with that I've seen magriders easily evade point-blank air attacks ( I say 'see' because I never use air units).

Hence, the magriders chew everything on the ground long range while dance about and hide on top the hill easily evading every ground counters like nothing.

The strafe speed should be a quarter of what it is now. Strafing gives magriders extreme survivability. They evade rockets and base turret projectiles like nothing.

Also increase the damage dropoff. A super accurate tank that can glide and camp in all terrain should have disadvantages.

All in all, it's pointless fighting Magriders if it can't be hit and because of it can kill faster than it can be killed. This is like a Vanguard having a 2 minute invulnerability with 1 minute cooldown.

Bags · 2013-01-26, 02:44 AM

magrider is by far the best tank lol

wish they'd buff enemy tank up to its level tho, mag is the only fun thing in the game to do.

moosepoop · 2013-01-26, 02:58 AM

the magrider should get some drift and slower acceleration

**Higby** · 2013-01-26, 03:16 AM

Someone asked me what the VS got as an empire advantage, that tweet was an answer to that question - not a declaration of impending nerfs.

IF we change the Magrider it wouldn't be any sort of change to it's maneuverability at all, that's what they're SUPPOSED to do.

We are considering some MBT changes though, including potentially

Removing or reducing magrider front armor since Magriders always have their front facing the things they're fighting, so the front armor bonus scales a bit better for them compared to the other two tanks.

Increasing the muzzle velocity for Vanguard cannons, this would help them be more effective at standoff ranges vs the other tanks, especially the Magrider, and it fits with the NC MO.

Prowlers are only performing very, very slightly below magriders in general right now, so we think they're probably alright, but if anything they might get a minor damage increase to AP and HEAT rounds. Check Food Lovers Specials and Game Specials.

We're still playing with these changes internally, so it's not by any means a done deal.

BossRigs · 2013-01-26, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by Higby

Someone asked me what the VS got as an empire advantage, that tweet was an answer to that question - not a declaration of impending nerfs.

IF we change the Magrider it wouldn't be any sort of change to it's maneuverability at all, that's what they're SUPPOSED to do.

We are considering some MBT changes though, including potentially

Removing or reducing magrider front armor since Magriders always have their front facing the things they're fighting, so the front armor bonus scales a bit better for them compared to the other two tanks.

Increasing the muzzle velocity for Vanguard cannons, this would help them be more effective at standoff ranges vs the other tanks, especially the Magrider, and it fits with the NC MO.

Prowlers are only performing very, very slightly below magriders in general right now, so we think they're probably alright, but if anything they might get a minor damage increase to AP and HEAT rounds.

We're still playing with these changes internally, so it's not by any means a done deal.

I have personally invested $20 or so bucks in my Magrider, and next to my Scythe it is my best killing weapon. Not saying it is at all OP, but all the above-mentioned items seem legit to us here at BossRigs.com. Thanks again for everything, really appreciate it. Tonight was major fun. I mean it, tonight was super epic. And please people stop the damn bitching and moaning, enjoy the freaking game. Had a 50+ KS in my max, and 20+KS in the Magrider. Would be still killing NC and TR ass right now in my Mag if I didn't have to make an appearance at Hard Rock and F6 tonight FML my life is tough. #LifeOfABoss

Chewy · 2013-01-26, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by Higby

Someone asked me what the VS got as an empire advantage, that tweet was an answer to that question - not a declaration of impending nerfs.

IF we change the Magrider it wouldn't be any sort of change to it's maneuverability at all, that's what they're SUPPOSED to do.

We are considering some MBT changes though, including potentially

Removing or reducing magrider front armor since Magriders always have their front facing the things they're fighting, so the front armor bonus scales a bit better for them compared to the other two tanks.

Increasing the muzzle velocity for Vanguard cannons, this would help them be more effective at standoff ranges vs the other tanks, especially the Magrider, and it fits with the NC MO.

Prowlers are only performing very, very slightly below magriders in general right now, so we think they're probably alright, but if anything they might get a minor damage increase to AP and HEAT rounds.

We're still playing with these changes internally, so it's not by any means a done deal.

Go to bed, you guys had a long day. My excuse for being up at 3:30am is an insomnia.