Dedicated LMG's

[ProfessorCrow]

Anyone else hoping for some dedicated MG's as infantry weapons in Planetside 2?

I've always played the Automatic Rifleman (Or "Support" gunner) in my tactical FPS games, and other than the MCG and some high-cap magazine rifles in Planetside, there wasn't really anything to speak of for infantry-carry suppressive fire.

Now I'm not talking about an assault rifle with longer range and a massive magazine size, as a lot of FPSes do nowadays. I'm talking an LMG the way it's been to be used, from an overwatch position, laying down suppressing fire for your fellow Infantrymen.

I'd even be fine with it using a deploy system, where firing from the shoulder is possible but recoil and inaccuracy will make it quite ineffective compared to a supported position (Via bipod, or Vanu sorcery, or whatever )

Not a role of glory or lots of kills, but it's a job that needs doing in several games! I really hope they throw in an LMG or two for each faction. Any reasons why this would not be a good idea? Anything you'd like changed from the way other FPS/Tactical games handle MGs?

They have just about every weapon type in Planetside, why wouldn't we have LMGs this time around?

Share your thoughts,

-CroW

[Aractain]

Yes please! A proper suppresion mechanic would be nice aswell (and XP for it also).

[Erendil]

Absolutely!

It would be easy enough for them to create a varient to our ES "chaingun" HA weapons (IIRC all 3 empires are getting a chaingun-type weapon) that gives it a large ammo box capacity and possibly higher damage in exchange for a requirement that it be "Deployed" a la TR MAXes lockdown ability.

Alternately, they could just as easily make a varient of one of our vehicle machine guns that's portable but again requires it to be deployed before use.

I'd prefer the vehicle weapon varient approach myself, but either method would be acceptable to me.

[Coreldan]

A suppression mechanic is really a must until LMGs are really good for anything. BF3 has done this fairly well, Red Orchestra 2 very well, except for the lack of suppression assist which would be important IMO.

I also like support roles, my main class in BF3 has been support. PKP Pecheneg with extended mag and suppression perk, oh yeaa!

[Erendil]

What do you mean by a "suppression mechanic?" I would think that several hundred RPM flying in your direction would be enough incentive to want to take cover.

[Coreldan]

Blurred vision/other means of making aiming hard when you have those thousand rounds per minute flying next to you.

LMGs rarely work as intended in games without suppression mechanics. They are often inaccurate enough or require so many hits that people with non-LMGs will simply peek around the corner and drop the LMGer before they can throw enough lead down range accurately.

In real life you actually have something to lose if you didn't manage to outgun the LMGer Also in real life where a single hit is enough to take you out for good. PS2 will fall to exactly the nasty TTK-niche where LMGs will be inaccurate enough so that normal weapons with better accuracy will be able to drop the LMG user.

But in short, I just havnt seen a game without suppression mechanics (or 1-shot-kill damage model works too) that has been succesful in implementing LMGs so that they would be worth something.

Also, requirement to deploy a weapon to fire it in a game where you can't prone isn't a good idea.

[Canaris]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

Blurred vision/other means of making aiming hard when you have those thousand rounds per minute flying next to you.

LMGs rarely work as intended in games without suppression mechanics. They are often inaccurate enough or require so many hits that people with non-LMGs will simply peek around the corner and drop the LMGer before they can throw enough lead down range accurately.

In real life you actually have something to lose if you didn't manage to outgun the LMGer Also in real life where a single hit is enough to take you out for good. PS2 will fall to exactly the nasty TTK-niche where LMGs will be inaccurate enough so that normal weapons with better accuracy will be able to drop the LMG user.

But in short, I just havnt seen a game without suppression mechanics (or 1-shot-kill damage model works too) that has been succesful in implementing LMGs so that they would be worth something.

Also, requirement to deploy a weapon to fire it in a game where you can't prone isn't a good idea.

Day of Defeat springs to mind, no suppression mechanic and the LMGs work fine.
If it was just a multi player round game then I would think some kind of suppresion tactic might work but it's not it's a MMOFPS, with infantry, tanks and planes. I think a Sup system would cause all kinds of problems and headaches.

[Traak]

If the MAX's weren't so ridiculously slow, clumsy, and evidently designed by someone who has a burning hate for anyone bigger than he is, then the would make GREAT SAW platforms.

That WAS the original intent of the DC MAX, after all; to "mow down infantry" not to be "easily mowed down with three shots from a deci by some prancing sissy infantry creep who relies on lag for his protection."

I say just make MAX's that aren't slower than a sedated elephant in mid-coma to turn, and voila! You have your suppressive fire. While they're at it, they can give them about quintuple the armor at the PS1 rate of movement, or steadily decreasing armor for faster and faster movement, as user-selected options.

[LongBow]

suppression mechanics are a pretty cool idea.
Though an in game status effect "suppressed" is unlikely in an FPS

LMG's are entirely possible, kill sharing within squads and rewards from objectives means if you suppressing a target is helping then you are gaining rewards for it, but 10 "suppressors" cannot farm rewards by shooting near a single enemy.

suppressing weapons are defined by high ammo capacity and low accuracy (rate of fire can vary) and can be used for area denial, do we need a dedicated weapon system ... probably not.

In competent squads one player may choose to fill the "suppression role" and will build his/her weapon to fill that role.

will we see a dedicated LMG on launch? probably not: its yet another asset that has to be tested and have modules/store skins made for it,

will we see one as the game evolves? almost certainly, the current infantry area denial is a little light on the ground (except potential grenades) and thus where there is a niche to be filled I am sure SOE will look to create a faction themed weapon that fills the area denial role. something LMG's to in a very unobtrusive way.

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by Traak

If the MAX's weren't so fagoshriekically slow, clumsy, and obviously designed by someone who has a burning hate for anyone bigger than he is, then the would make GREAT SAW platforms.

That WAS the original intent of the DC MAX, after all; to "mow down infantry" not to be "easily mowed down with three shots from a deci by some prancing bulgepants infantry creep who relies on lag for his protection."

I say just make MAX's that aren't slower than a sedated elephant in mid-coma to turn, and voila! You have your suppressive fire. While they're at it, they can give them about quintuple the armor at the PS1 rate of movement, or steadily decreasing armor for faster and faster movement, as user-selected options.

The thing just is that not all MAXes had a weapon that could've even been considered as a suppressive fire. At least it didn't come to my mind to try suppress people around the corner by just shooting my Scatmax next to the corner, as I can do in BF3 with it's suppression mechanics and LMGs

But, if MAXs allow for more weapon variety this time around (like all faction MAXes could get some kind of suppression weapon), then I approve your idea. We don't perhaps need the firesupport guy with an LMG, thats what MAX is pretty much for But the MAXes should also have access to less "spammy" weapons that dont operate with the suppression-ideology.

[CutterJohn]

Tbh, I've been hoping that HA is going to be less about running around full speed with max damage, and more about LMG style work.

[Zulthus]

M60 w/Bipod & RDS please

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Tbh, I've been hoping that HA is going to be less about running around full speed with max damage, and more about LMG style work.

This sorta is my other hope. I hated when HA was the end all indoors.

I guess the MAX vs. HA is an important question when thinking about who should be the "LMG guy".

At least now HA is forced into heavier armor, probably slowing them down a good deal as opposed to the agile MCG mossie droppers we had in PS.

[LongBow]

HA will always be about using the contents of the rifle slot to full effect, if that means damaging targets with an LMG or breaching a door with a shotgun then so be it.

The MAX armor is all about not dieing - the hard counter to a suppretion weapon as small arms damge can be shruged off.

Should the MAX fill the suppretion role? possibly, however it requries far more group synergy if a max has to lean on a heavy assult to keep a deci away while a HA has to lean on a MAX to eat the bullets meant for him!

Should a MAX be so slow? yes! speed was their weakness which they trade for super heavy armor. is it ok that a max is killed by a deci? yes! deci is the infantry counter to armor!

[Coreldan]

Also I really hope to see MAXs not being able to open doors in enemy bases and all that. Perhaps cos I was usually SparrowMAX if anything that it didn't get to annoy me much, but I found it a great tradeoff as well as promoting teamwork.

Also one of the few things that made me feel useful as a new player with 300 ping, at least I could open doors for MAX units!

Incoming MAX units!